5 ms·

On a related note, it's really interesting to see how people act when they know they can't motivate someone with money. For example, I used to do client work,

On a related note, it's really interesting to see how people act when they know they can't motivate someone with money. For example, I used to do client work, but stopped (because I hate it) a few years ago after I sold my design firm. On my blog's contact form I specifically say that I don't do any consulting work, but I still get emails at least once or twice per week from people who want to hire me for iPhone work. I always politely refuse, and thank them for the consideration. Sometimes they'll reply saying "we have a large budget" or something like that, and I'll reply again saying, thanks, but no thanks, it's not about the money. As soon as I say that magical phrase, they just don't know what to say or do because they're used to motivating designers/developers with money. It's actually an interesting sociological situation.

deleted 16y ago
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DenisM 16y ago
Surely you would reconsider for $10,000 per day?
- flyosity 16y ago
  Probably not, that'd involve me quitting a job that I love (that I don't need the money from) and I also wouldn't have time to work on my own projects, which are my favorite thing to do in the world. Of course I don't really need the money, so I'm sure others' mileage will vary.
  - mitjak 16y ago
    What is your current job and motivation for preferring it, if you don't mind sharing?
    - flyosity 16y ago
      UI design & development for a small marketing software company. All my friends work here, 20' ceilings, great vibe, foosball, free reign over what I work on, huge windows, I could go on. If I quit then I wouldn't be able to hang out with my friends or geek out at lunch, I'd just be sitting at my house by myself :)
      - rorrr 16y ago
        For $10,000 per day you could rent a better place with all the perks and still have a lot left.
        burgerbrain 16y ago
        You can rent friends? Oh wait, I suppose you can... for some value of friends...
        tryke 16y ago
        For $10,000 a day, you could hire them to work with you.
        true_religion 16y ago
        10,000 a day for how long? If the contract is guaranteed to last a year, then heck you can bring your friends with you. Even if they're top level devs making 200k per year, you can still hire 17.5 of them (10,000 * 356 / 200000).
        rorrr 16y ago
        http://rentafriend.com/ http://rentafriend.com/
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - mitjak 16y ago
        I like how you emphasize huge windows. A lot of people I've worked and am studying with don't seem to value natural light much. In fact, many hurry to close the blinds only to turn on artificial lighting on. Why???! I personally find large open windows very inspiring and conducive to work, and generally feel lethargic and depressed if the sky is overcast (this is partly to blame for moving out of Vancouver).
  - rms 16y ago
    For $10,000 a day you could save 100 lives a day via optimal philanthropy. At a certain amount of money, you might have a moral responsibility to not do exactly what you want to do. http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/villagereach http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/villager...
    - mhartl 16y ago
      How do you enforce a moral responsibility?
      - IgorPartola 16y ago
        That question has no meaning. Morality is not something you can enforce. Morality is a strictly personal matter, and anyone that tells you that you have a moral responsibility to do something is confused. Nobody can tell you what your moral responsibilities are other than yourself. In this light, the parent post is right. "You might have a moral responsibility" implies that you may feel compelled to do something. The frequent misinterpretation is that you have a responsibility to someone else, which is false. If you feel compelled to carry on a job you hate to save lives, you have a moral responsibility. If you do not feel so compelled, you do not have a moral responsibility. You cannot have a moral responsibility without feeling compelled.
        roel_v 16y ago
        "Morality is a strictly personal matter," Oh this is very much a contested position (known as 'objective' vs 'relative' morality). If I feel that murdering people with red hair is morally neutral, or positive even, is it so? I posit that it's not - murder is objectively morally wrong, no matter the ideas or feeling of being compelled of anyone. To phrase it in your terms, I think everybody has a moral responsibility not to murder people, even if they feel compelled to do so.
        IgorPartola 16y ago
        Definitely contested. I believe that relative morality is the best we can really hope for, but I know that many disagree.
- ghaff 16y ago
  A lot also depends on the context of $10,000 per day. Yes, it's a fair bit if it's a situation where the $10K/day captures all the time you spend on the client including most prep work, travel, and so forth. But for some types of consulting, you actually spend a relatively small amount of your time "on the clock" and lots of time gathering information, talking to people, formulating your thoughts, marketing yourself in various respects. In a prior job, $10K per day for an on-site consulting session (or a speech, etc.) was actually a pretty typical fee for that type of work but you did relatively few such engagements and sent a lot of time doing things for which you didn't get paid--or got paid a fair bit less--that were nonetheless necessary to being able to command the $10K per day. (That rate is also getting in roughly the ballpark of high-end lawyers and similar professionals with the difference that they charge you for much more of the background work.)
  - noonespecial 16y ago
    The $10,000 isn't for the day you do the work, its for all of the other days that made you capable of doing it.
    - ghaff 16y ago
      Absolutely. I think a lot of people hear $10,000 per day and mentally multiply it by 100 or 200 or whatever and go "WOW, that's a whole lot of money every year." But in a lot of situations, it's as you say.
mahmud 16y ago
It's like turning down someone because you're taken. It goes from nods to nudges pretty quick.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  I love this analogy. I was scratching my head at refusing $10k/per day (I can understand it logically, but can't quite grok it), but once you said that I got it totally :-)
- darklajid 16y ago
  It's very, very nice to see this article vs. the salary negotiations one [1]. Over there, Jaques mentions that a lot of people suck asking for more money because they just love their job the way it is. Which is kind of a failure if you're on the low end of the pay scale, but this particular thread here shows that it actually ends up being a good thing in the end. IF (big..) you end up in a job that you love and that compensates you enough (not talking about endless greed here..), you're probably among the happiest people out there. Hats off to you guys and I love the "stick to things I love instead of selling myself" attitude. 1: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2309317 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2309317
- veidr 16y ago
  What does that mean, "goes from nods to nudges"? It seemed like some idiom I didn't know, so I googled the phrase 'nods to nudges'. However, this very Hacker News page was the only result, so I am still in the dark.
  - davidmathers 16y ago
    Nudges: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I
  - mahmud 16y ago
    I get physical pleasure out of saying things that rhyme and chime, gel & mesh, fit and click like mortar and brick.
  - 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

DenisM 16y ago

Surely you would reconsider for $10,000 per day?

flyosity 16y ago
Probably not, that'd involve me quitting a job that I love (that I don't need the money from) and I also wouldn't have time to work on my own projects, which are my favorite thing to do in the world. Of course I don't really need the money, so I'm sure others' mileage will vary.
- mitjak 16y ago
  What is your current job and motivation for preferring it, if you don't mind sharing?
  - flyosity 16y ago
    UI design & development for a small marketing software company. All my friends work here, 20' ceilings, great vibe, foosball, free reign over what I work on, huge windows, I could go on. If I quit then I wouldn't be able to hang out with my friends or geek out at lunch, I'd just be sitting at my house by myself :)
    - rorrr 16y ago
      For $10,000 per day you could rent a better place with all the perks and still have a lot left.
      - burgerbrain 16y ago
        You can rent friends? Oh wait, I suppose you can... for some value of friends...
        tryke 16y ago
        For $10,000 a day, you could hire them to work with you.
        true_religion 16y ago
        10,000 a day for how long? If the contract is guaranteed to last a year, then heck you can bring your friends with you. Even if they're top level devs making 200k per year, you can still hire 17.5 of them (10,000 * 356 / 200000).
        rorrr 16y ago
        http://rentafriend.com/ http://rentafriend.com/
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
    - mitjak 16y ago
      I like how you emphasize huge windows. A lot of people I've worked and am studying with don't seem to value natural light much. In fact, many hurry to close the blinds only to turn on artificial lighting on. Why???! I personally find large open windows very inspiring and conducive to work, and generally feel lethargic and depressed if the sky is overcast (this is partly to blame for moving out of Vancouver).
- rms 16y ago
  For $10,000 a day you could save 100 lives a day via optimal philanthropy. At a certain amount of money, you might have a moral responsibility to not do exactly what you want to do. http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/villagereach http://www.givewell.org/international/top-charities/villager...
  - mhartl 16y ago
    How do you enforce a moral responsibility?
    - IgorPartola 16y ago
      That question has no meaning. Morality is not something you can enforce. Morality is a strictly personal matter, and anyone that tells you that you have a moral responsibility to do something is confused. Nobody can tell you what your moral responsibilities are other than yourself. In this light, the parent post is right. "You might have a moral responsibility" implies that you may feel compelled to do something. The frequent misinterpretation is that you have a responsibility to someone else, which is false. If you feel compelled to carry on a job you hate to save lives, you have a moral responsibility. If you do not feel so compelled, you do not have a moral responsibility. You cannot have a moral responsibility without feeling compelled.
      - roel_v 16y ago
        "Morality is a strictly personal matter," Oh this is very much a contested position (known as 'objective' vs 'relative' morality). If I feel that murdering people with red hair is morally neutral, or positive even, is it so? I posit that it's not - murder is objectively morally wrong, no matter the ideas or feeling of being compelled of anyone. To phrase it in your terms, I think everybody has a moral responsibility not to murder people, even if they feel compelled to do so.
        IgorPartola 16y ago
        Definitely contested. I believe that relative morality is the best we can really hope for, but I know that many disagree.
ghaff 16y ago
A lot also depends on the context of $10,000 per day. Yes, it's a fair bit if it's a situation where the $10K/day captures all the time you spend on the client including most prep work, travel, and so forth. But for some types of consulting, you actually spend a relatively small amount of your time "on the clock" and lots of time gathering information, talking to people, formulating your thoughts, marketing yourself in various respects. In a prior job, $10K per day for an on-site consulting session (or a speech, etc.) was actually a pretty typical fee for that type of work but you did relatively few such engagements and sent a lot of time doing things for which you didn't get paid--or got paid a fair bit less--that were nonetheless necessary to being able to command the $10K per day. (That rate is also getting in roughly the ballpark of high-end lawyers and similar professionals with the difference that they charge you for much more of the background work.)
- noonespecial 16y ago
  The $10,000 isn't for the day you do the work, its for all of the other days that made you capable of doing it.
  - ghaff 16y ago
    Absolutely. I think a lot of people hear $10,000 per day and mentally multiply it by 100 or 200 or whatever and go "WOW, that's a whole lot of money every year." But in a lot of situations, it's as you say.

mahmud 16y ago

It's like turning down someone because you're taken. It goes from nods to nudges pretty quick.

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
I love this analogy. I was scratching my head at refusing $10k/per day (I can understand it logically, but can't quite grok it), but once you said that I got it totally :-)
darklajid 16y ago
It's very, very nice to see this article vs. the salary negotiations one [1]. Over there, Jaques mentions that a lot of people suck asking for more money because they just love their job the way it is. Which is kind of a failure if you're on the low end of the pay scale, but this particular thread here shows that it actually ends up being a good thing in the end. IF (big..) you end up in a job that you love and that compensates you enough (not talking about endless greed here..), you're probably among the happiest people out there. Hats off to you guys and I love the "stick to things I love instead of selling myself" attitude. 1: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2309317 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2309317
veidr 16y ago
What does that mean, "goes from nods to nudges"? It seemed like some idiom I didn't know, so I googled the phrase 'nods to nudges'. However, this very Hacker News page was the only result, so I am still in the dark.
- davidmathers 16y ago
  Nudges: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3_UCm1A5I
- mahmud 16y ago
  I get physical pleasure out of saying things that rhyme and chime, gel & mesh, fit and click like mortar and brick.
- 16y ago