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"Absolutely nothing stops a group from creating a non-profit, electing a board of trustees that appoints managers" We have done. They're called nations. Other

"Absolutely nothing stops a group from creating a non-profit, electing a board of trustees that appoints managers" We have done. They're called nations. Other nations are available. You're not forced to stay in the one you are born in. That's enshrined in the United nations charter on human rights.

seibelj 6y ago
The nation is quite unlikely to radically increase taxes and outlaw private property. Why not create this system yourself among like-minded people?
- 0x8BADF00D 6y ago
  They tried that in Waco. Didn’t work out so well for them. It turns out that you can’t really escape the tyranny of the government. Might as well suck it up, and have strong property rights. At least that is a check on government tyranny.
  - neilwilson 6y ago
    How is it? Who grants these 'rights' and who enforces them? Distributed enforcement always ends up being who has the most and sharpest pointy sticks. Centralised enforcement is called "government" Pick your poison.
    - pc2g4d 6y ago
      The norm of private property rights gives citizens a powerful tool against government overreach. Norms alter how power is legitimized and as such make new things possible---it's not just about pointy sticks.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        It is, in fact, always about pointy sticks, which becomes shockingly apparent any time norms and the desires of those with the pointy sticks diverge too far, and having and consistently applying pointy sticks with a given rule is a very powerful method of establishing norms aligned with the stick holders desires, which then reduce the need for pointy stick holders to stick people with the sticks. (This fact is also why a number of people have a strong preference for the norm of the wide distribution of pointy sticks, to try to better align the desires of those holding pointy sticks with general norms.)
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
> That's enshrined in the United nations charter on human rights. Good luck turning up at $country’s port of entry with that as your only immigration document.
- neilwilson 6y ago
  That's a straw man isn't it. The UN charter enshrines your right to leave a nation. And that's all it enshrines. It's more the port of exit that is the issue.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    Fair point. Being stateless may very well be an improvement.

seibelj 6y ago

The nation is quite unlikely to radically increase taxes and outlaw private property. Why not create this system yourself among like-minded people?

0x8BADF00D 6y ago
They tried that in Waco. Didn’t work out so well for them. It turns out that you can’t really escape the tyranny of the government. Might as well suck it up, and have strong property rights. At least that is a check on government tyranny.
- neilwilson 6y ago
  How is it? Who grants these 'rights' and who enforces them? Distributed enforcement always ends up being who has the most and sharpest pointy sticks. Centralised enforcement is called "government" Pick your poison.
  - pc2g4d 6y ago
    The norm of private property rights gives citizens a powerful tool against government overreach. Norms alter how power is legitimized and as such make new things possible---it's not just about pointy sticks.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      It is, in fact, always about pointy sticks, which becomes shockingly apparent any time norms and the desires of those with the pointy sticks diverge too far, and having and consistently applying pointy sticks with a given rule is a very powerful method of establishing norms aligned with the stick holders desires, which then reduce the need for pointy stick holders to stick people with the sticks. (This fact is also why a number of people have a strong preference for the norm of the wide distribution of pointy sticks, to try to better align the desires of those holding pointy sticks with general norms.)

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

> That's enshrined in the United nations charter on human rights. Good luck turning up at $country’s port of entry with that as your only immigration document.

neilwilson 6y ago
That's a straw man isn't it. The UN charter enshrines your right to leave a nation. And that's all it enshrines. It's more the port of exit that is the issue.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  Fair point. Being stateless may very well be an improvement.