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What is going on here? A lot of the comments on this thread seem to be confusing bad management with metric visibility. And it seems they would prefer to bury t

What is going on here? A lot of the comments on this thread seem to be confusing bad management with metric visibility. And it seems they would prefer to bury the metrics so they are not used to "snitch out" on people. Looks like a mix of dishonesty and toxic culture at work. We basically built these metrics with Prometheus and grafana because our review queue kept growing. Now we keep everyone accountable, and make these metrics part of our stand-up meetings. Our PR queue is now smaller, and review time is shorter. We use these metrics not to point fingers, but to ensure people are not overcommitting, overworked, and that people know how many things they have on their table. I'm quite glad something like this is now available off the shelf

sdesol 6y ago
I think peoples concerns are quite valid, but a lot of the criticism comes from poorly designed tools. In full disclosure, I've been researching developer insights for quite a while and I will be releasing something in the near future that focuses on "developer first metrics". The goal is to showcase how code metrics can be used by developers to improve their day to day routine. And by doing so, make software metrics, less of a taboo. When I took a hiatus from my startup a year and a half ago, I learned a lot about code metrics and how it is misused and why there is such a desperation for it. There is a reason why, GitPrime was acquired for about 180 million USD. I don't think it (GitPrime) serves developers well, but it does highlight how desperately management wants to know what is going on. Since the details on "GitHub Insights" is pretty much hidden (unless you are willing to pay for it), I can't speak much for how "developer centric" it is, but if the focus for "GitHub Insights" is to appeal to developers as well, then I think it will go a long way to make software metrics a good thing for the industry as a whole. Right now I'm keeping things under wraps, but I've attached some screenshots of what kind of metrics you can surface that can help developers. Note, the screenshots are not the final product, as the product is still being heavily refined. And what makes my solution unique is, everything can be validated. That is, if you want to have a conversation around why a piece of code (or codes) had such a high churn, you can drill down to the source code level to see how the changes were derived. https://imgur.com/Oh0836a https://imgur.com/Oh0836a https://imgur.com/QvmhFIr https://imgur.com/QvmhFIr https://imgur.com/5wEG6uv https://imgur.com/5wEG6uv https://imgur.com/ltTXhkd https://imgur.com/ltTXhkd As I mentioned early, I've been studying code metrics for a while and I strongly believe you will need developer buy in, if you want any chance of success with code metrics. So in my opinion, how positive/useful "GitHub Insights" is, will depend heavily on how developer friendly it is.
- searchableguy 6y ago
  You should avoid using Imgur. Their links don't work on mobile correctly. It crashes my browser.
  - sdesol 6y ago
    Thanks for letting me know! You would think Imgur would would ensure things work on mobile, but maybe this is by design.
    - searchableguy 6y ago
      it is by design. Imgur was mobile friendly before.
ryanwaggoner 6y ago
We use these metrics not to point fingers, but to ensure people are not overcommitting, overworked, and that people know how many things they have on their table. Perhaps people have little faith in most management, and expect that tools like this will be used to point fingers. You're not wrong about misuse of these tools being a symptom of bad management, but if 90% of the management in an industry is inclined to misuse such tools, it's reasonable to be dismayed when those tools are made more widely available.
- sergioisidoro 6y ago
  You're right, it's reasonable to be dismayed, but imho not so reasonable to want to keep the metrics hidden. Feels like we, as an industry, already had this conversation in infosec - abot security by obfuscation - which has some parallels here. The conclusion was that hiding things is generally a bad solution to the underlying problems.
  - ric2b 6y ago
    This has nothing to do with security by obscurity. There aren't hundreds/thousands of anonymous managers probing into your teams metrics trying to find the single metric that will defeat your team.
undefinedit 6y ago
> What is going on here? Maybe fear for even more corporate bullshit interfering with the already difficult job a developer has to do? > confusing bad management with metric visibility Hmm not so confusing IMO. And what is your definition of 'bad management'? Most management I've worked with as a developer have no clue about coding and the complexity we're working in. These metrics could be valuable for someone who knows more about the complexity of the underlying technology and what is needed to actually make the PR happen.
nimish 6y ago
Data isn't insight. More metrics isn't more better. Most of these metrics are incommensurable across teams, people, projects...counterproductive to expose them. They aren't even robust to gaming.
boobsbr 6y ago
> and make these metrics part of our stand-up meetings To each their own, if your team likes it, fine. If they just tolerate it because the decision came from above, yikes, what a nightmare, more management surveillance. I would look for another job.

sdesol 6y ago

I think peoples concerns are quite valid, but a lot of the criticism comes from poorly designed tools. In full disclosure, I've been researching developer insights for quite a while and I will be releasing something in the near future that focuses on "developer first metrics". The goal is to showcase how code metrics can be used by developers to improve their day to day routine. And by doing so, make software metrics, less of a taboo. When I took a hiatus from my startup a year and a half ago, I learned a lot about code metrics and how it is misused and why there is such a desperation for it. There is a reason why, GitPrime was acquired for about 180 million USD. I don't think it (GitPrime) serves developers well, but it does highlight how desperately management wants to know what is going on. Since the details on "GitHub Insights" is pretty much hidden (unless you are willing to pay for it), I can't speak much for how "developer centric" it is, but if the focus for "GitHub Insights" is to appeal to developers as well, then I think it will go a long way to make software metrics a good thing for the industry as a whole. Right now I'm keeping things under wraps, but I've attached some screenshots of what kind of metrics you can surface that can help developers. Note, the screenshots are not the final product, as the product is still being heavily refined. And what makes my solution unique is, everything can be validated. That is, if you want to have a conversation around why a piece of code (or codes) had such a high churn, you can drill down to the source code level to see how the changes were derived. https://imgur.com/Oh0836a https://imgur.com/Oh0836a https://imgur.com/QvmhFIr https://imgur.com/QvmhFIr https://imgur.com/5wEG6uv https://imgur.com/5wEG6uv https://imgur.com/ltTXhkd https://imgur.com/ltTXhkd As I mentioned early, I've been studying code metrics for a while and I strongly believe you will need developer buy in, if you want any chance of success with code metrics. So in my opinion, how positive/useful "GitHub Insights" is, will depend heavily on how developer friendly it is.

searchableguy 6y ago
You should avoid using Imgur. Their links don't work on mobile correctly. It crashes my browser.
- sdesol 6y ago
  Thanks for letting me know! You would think Imgur would would ensure things work on mobile, but maybe this is by design.
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    it is by design. Imgur was mobile friendly before.

ryanwaggoner 6y ago

We use these metrics not to point fingers, but to ensure people are not overcommitting, overworked, and that people know how many things they have on their table. Perhaps people have little faith in most management, and expect that tools like this will be used to point fingers. You're not wrong about misuse of these tools being a symptom of bad management, but if 90% of the management in an industry is inclined to misuse such tools, it's reasonable to be dismayed when those tools are made more widely available.

sergioisidoro 6y ago
You're right, it's reasonable to be dismayed, but imho not so reasonable to want to keep the metrics hidden. Feels like we, as an industry, already had this conversation in infosec - abot security by obfuscation - which has some parallels here. The conclusion was that hiding things is generally a bad solution to the underlying problems.
- ric2b 6y ago
  This has nothing to do with security by obscurity. There aren't hundreds/thousands of anonymous managers probing into your teams metrics trying to find the single metric that will defeat your team.

undefinedit 6y ago

> What is going on here? Maybe fear for even more corporate bullshit interfering with the already difficult job a developer has to do? > confusing bad management with metric visibility Hmm not so confusing IMO. And what is your definition of 'bad management'? Most management I've worked with as a developer have no clue about coding and the complexity we're working in. These metrics could be valuable for someone who knows more about the complexity of the underlying technology and what is needed to actually make the PR happen.

nimish 6y ago

Data isn't insight. More metrics isn't more better. Most of these metrics are incommensurable across teams, people, projects...counterproductive to expose them. They aren't even robust to gaming.

boobsbr 6y ago

> and make these metrics part of our stand-up meetings To each their own, if your team likes it, fine. If they just tolerate it because the decision came from above, yikes, what a nightmare, more management surveillance. I would look for another job.