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“He rejects all questions about extrajudicial killings or humanitarian atrocities as propaganda: “The media is often reporting that we execute people, which is

“He rejects all questions about extrajudicial killings or humanitarian atrocities as propaganda: “The media is often reporting that we execute people, which is not true,” he claims.” Interesting article. I often wonder about the mindset of people who deny the obvious facts. Does he really believe it or is he just cynical?

themodelplumber 6y ago
> Does he really believe it or is he just cynical Neither, IMO. From observing him over the years, he knows what's good for him, and he knows how to get a good vibe going with others at the same time. The vibe can make anything true or false and is not known for being concerned with moral true/false questions, which get into subjective (qualitative) ethics. (You can argue that those same ethics prevent reasonably helpful business from being done in many cases, as distasteful as it sounds.) I'd add that he has a good nose for opportunity and a higher than average threshold for risk. This is your typical "fixer" type.
- mc32 6y ago
  It’s probably like being an ambassador from a country with lots of controversy around human rights and so on and they get interviewed when something big hits the news. It’s not like they don’t know what happens but it’s in their and their countries’ interest to see things differently.
  - hangphyr 6y ago
    Probably this. No atrocities committed by any government were done because the government viewed itself as 'evil' so it must do evil things, the perpetrators always view their crimes as justified for some form of greater good. If one believes a single lie is just a single stepping stone on the path to some grand utopia, or if that lie would prevent some chaos (social disorder, rebellion, etc), some will have no problems telling that lie as many times as they need to.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    An ambassador is a citizen of their country and is subject to getting recalled and being sent to reform-through-labor camp to forage corn kernels from frozen pig shit if they don't toe the line. This guy, on the hand, has voluntarily chosen to be an apologist and enabler for one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.
    - Ididntdothis 6y ago
      “one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.“ Does North Korea have any competition for this title? I thought they were number one on that list.
      - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
        Eritrea is right up there as well, but they don't have nukes, so nobody cares. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea
        jacobush 6y ago
        On the other hand, should the stars align so that anyone cares, Eritrea is open to foreign intervention. Libya cancelled its nuclear program in the early 21st century and welcomed UN inspections. Then an international alliance force removed Gaddafi from power and he was killed. I am sure would-be-dictators all over the world are taking note - if you have nukes, you don't face invasion.
        hackerman123469 6y ago
        Unless you have "nukes"
        mc32 6y ago
        Although he was a bad guy, doublecrossing him was a terrible choice and we’re feeling the consequences of that hubris. That said what keeps the west from invading NKorea aren’t the nukes. It’s the katyusha and other conventional armament that would rain down on Seoul a few Kms across the border.
peisistratos 6y ago
The 2nd largest company on the Fortune 500 has its executives doing major business with a government that dismembers Washington Post employees in foreign embassies. In fact, US defense contractors were profiting off their slaughter of Yemenis until recently. The attempts to look abroad and decide to find someone to find fault with is risible.
- chance_state 6y ago
  Is this something other than "America bad"? What do US defense contractors have to do with any of this?
  - vkou 6y ago
    It's pointing out that there's no shortage of legitimate businesses that ignore or deny uncomfortable facts about the people they are working with.
  - peisistratos 6y ago
    The web site this comes from is named for someone who said about Israeld killing of hundreds of children in Gaza bombings "Israel cannot have a proportional response" against the Palestinians.
lonelappde 6y ago
Does it matter if he believes it? What matters are his actions.
DavidVoid 6y ago
>I often wonder about the mindset of people who deny the obvious facts. Does he really believe it or is he just cynical? This just made me think of Baghdad Bob so I looked him up and apparently he is still alive and allegedly living in the UAE. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
  > It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago. “If only I was in America, then with my talents I would have had an awesome career in law, politics, or business.”
- Ididntdothis 6y ago
  Baghdad Bob came to mind too. Do you know more? I bet he is doing really well. People like him are very useful as propagandists.
- knolax 6y ago
  Funny you mention Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf considering it's been proven in hindsight that Iraq didn't have WMDs, in addition to the devastation that the invasion did to his country. ISIS wouldn't exist if your lot believed in his "obvious lies".
chrischen 6y ago
The guy is clearly lying considering that even the US does extra-judicial killings both inside (citizen-citizen) and outside the country (Drone strikes, CIA assassinations), regular executions of people (death penalty, even for treason). Most Americans don’t bat an eye that they pay taxes to fund this. As long as it’s in our interest we turn a blind eye. As long as it’s someone else we look down on them.
anonu 6y ago
> people who deny the obvious facts Not a DPRK apologist. But I wouldn't really say "obvious" with respect to anything coming out of there... Just two weeks ago rumors ran rampant that the leader was dead... We just have no clue.
- tptacek 6y ago
  We have firsthand accounts of the abuse of North Korean citizens.
  - Ididntdothis 6y ago
    And pictures.
    - shadowprofile77 6y ago
      I have no doubt that there's rampant human rights abuse in NK but where have you seen photos of their abuse? I'd imagine they'd be very careful about that.
      - Ididntdothis 6y ago
        There are satellite pictures of the camps and I remember seeing cell phone picture of the inside. That together with the very consistent descriptions of people who have escaped from there should be enough.
      - pvg 6y ago
        where have you seen photos of their abuse? There have been pictures, even cellphone video of things like public executions. Here's one recent report but people have been escaping the place and bringing evidence of abuse out for years. https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-executions-20190610-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-execu...

themodelplumber 6y ago

> Does he really believe it or is he just cynical Neither, IMO. From observing him over the years, he knows what's good for him, and he knows how to get a good vibe going with others at the same time. The vibe can make anything true or false and is not known for being concerned with moral true/false questions, which get into subjective (qualitative) ethics. (You can argue that those same ethics prevent reasonably helpful business from being done in many cases, as distasteful as it sounds.) I'd add that he has a good nose for opportunity and a higher than average threshold for risk. This is your typical "fixer" type.

mc32 6y ago
It’s probably like being an ambassador from a country with lots of controversy around human rights and so on and they get interviewed when something big hits the news. It’s not like they don’t know what happens but it’s in their and their countries’ interest to see things differently.
- hangphyr 6y ago
  Probably this. No atrocities committed by any government were done because the government viewed itself as 'evil' so it must do evil things, the perpetrators always view their crimes as justified for some form of greater good. If one believes a single lie is just a single stepping stone on the path to some grand utopia, or if that lie would prevent some chaos (social disorder, rebellion, etc), some will have no problems telling that lie as many times as they need to.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  An ambassador is a citizen of their country and is subject to getting recalled and being sent to reform-through-labor camp to forage corn kernels from frozen pig shit if they don't toe the line. This guy, on the hand, has voluntarily chosen to be an apologist and enabler for one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.
  - Ididntdothis 6y ago
    “one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.“ Does North Korea have any competition for this title? I thought they were number one on that list.
    - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
      Eritrea is right up there as well, but they don't have nukes, so nobody cares. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea
      - jacobush 6y ago
        On the other hand, should the stars align so that anyone cares, Eritrea is open to foreign intervention. Libya cancelled its nuclear program in the early 21st century and welcomed UN inspections. Then an international alliance force removed Gaddafi from power and he was killed. I am sure would-be-dictators all over the world are taking note - if you have nukes, you don't face invasion.
        hackerman123469 6y ago
        Unless you have "nukes"
        mc32 6y ago
        Although he was a bad guy, doublecrossing him was a terrible choice and we’re feeling the consequences of that hubris. That said what keeps the west from invading NKorea aren’t the nukes. It’s the katyusha and other conventional armament that would rain down on Seoul a few Kms across the border.

peisistratos 6y ago

The 2nd largest company on the Fortune 500 has its executives doing major business with a government that dismembers Washington Post employees in foreign embassies. In fact, US defense contractors were profiting off their slaughter of Yemenis until recently. The attempts to look abroad and decide to find someone to find fault with is risible.

chance_state 6y ago
Is this something other than "America bad"? What do US defense contractors have to do with any of this?
- vkou 6y ago
  It's pointing out that there's no shortage of legitimate businesses that ignore or deny uncomfortable facts about the people they are working with.
- peisistratos 6y ago
  The web site this comes from is named for someone who said about Israeld killing of hundreds of children in Gaza bombings "Israel cannot have a proportional response" against the Palestinians.

lonelappde 6y ago

Does it matter if he believes it? What matters are his actions.

DavidVoid 6y ago

>I often wonder about the mindset of people who deny the obvious facts. Does he really believe it or is he just cynical? This just made me think of Baghdad Bob so I looked him up and apparently he is still alive and allegedly living in the UAE. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
> It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago. “If only I was in America, then with my talents I would have had an awesome career in law, politics, or business.”
Ididntdothis 6y ago
Baghdad Bob came to mind too. Do you know more? I bet he is doing really well. People like him are very useful as propagandists.
knolax 6y ago
Funny you mention Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf considering it's been proven in hindsight that Iraq didn't have WMDs, in addition to the devastation that the invasion did to his country. ISIS wouldn't exist if your lot believed in his "obvious lies".

chrischen 6y ago

The guy is clearly lying considering that even the US does extra-judicial killings both inside (citizen-citizen) and outside the country (Drone strikes, CIA assassinations), regular executions of people (death penalty, even for treason). Most Americans don’t bat an eye that they pay taxes to fund this. As long as it’s in our interest we turn a blind eye. As long as it’s someone else we look down on them.

anonu 6y ago

> people who deny the obvious facts Not a DPRK apologist. But I wouldn't really say "obvious" with respect to anything coming out of there... Just two weeks ago rumors ran rampant that the leader was dead... We just have no clue.

tptacek 6y ago
We have firsthand accounts of the abuse of North Korean citizens.
- Ididntdothis 6y ago
  And pictures.
  - shadowprofile77 6y ago
    I have no doubt that there's rampant human rights abuse in NK but where have you seen photos of their abuse? I'd imagine they'd be very careful about that.
    - Ididntdothis 6y ago
      There are satellite pictures of the camps and I remember seeing cell phone picture of the inside. That together with the very consistent descriptions of people who have escaped from there should be enough.
    - pvg 6y ago
      where have you seen photos of their abuse? There have been pictures, even cellphone video of things like public executions. Here's one recent report but people have been escaping the place and bringing evidence of abuse out for years. https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-executions-20190610-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-execu...