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Microsoft appears to be pricing their hardware in line with Apple now? $1599 starting price for the Book? I get the quality and the features are up there but th

Microsoft appears to be pricing their hardware in line with Apple now? $1599 starting price for the Book? I get the quality and the features are up there but the price is unappealing. the surface Go even starts at a reasonable $399 but then to add a dock is $250? The dock is is 62.5% the cost of the computer? That seems rather steep

kevingadd 6y ago
I think with the docks it's a no-win situation, from what I can tell the surface docks contain a display adapter (maybe 2 now for the new one since it supports multiple displays?), a NIC, a USB hub, charging circuitry, and some other random stuff. The price of all that seems to add up. I originally assumed the video out on the surface dock was just passthrough but it's not, it has its own display hardware with its own quirks and you update the firmware on it to change the behavior in some cases. In my experience a comparable USB-C dock of decent quality for my macbook is pretty expensive too, though certainly not surface dock level. I think this is just the situation we're in with how laptops and docks interact now. If more of the smarts were in the laptop than the dock the dock would probably be a lot cheaper, but that seems like it might drive up the price of the laptops.
- munchbunny 6y ago
  The original Surface Dock supplies power, two USB ports, two mini-displayport plugs, a headphone jack, and an ethernet port. (I'm using one right now.) With my first gen Surface Book, I'm able to drive two external screens through the dock, or use the laptop screen plus one more. Haven't tried with a Surface Book 2 yet. The nice part is that it just reuses the charging port. As far as docking stations go, it's a substantial step up from most docks. That new price tag is still pretty steep though.
justaguyhere 6y ago
Reminds me of the $999 Apple stand
- notRobot 6y ago
  The $999 Stand was a publicity stunt, to get people and outlets talking about Apple and maintain its apparent status as a "luxury brand" (which it's not, it's a consumer brand, albeit a slightly expensive one). But if MSFT is going for the same thing with something that's actually meant to be useful like a dock, they're just being stupid. No one views MSFT as a luxury brand anyway.
  - fearface 6y ago
    No, Apple wanted to appeal to pro-sumers. The stand is for people who need the display, but already have a monitor grid to plug it in.
harrygeez 6y ago
You're paying for the r&d that does into creating these products. The Surface Book is full of custom parts, and you really don't expect it to cost the same as other OEM laptops. It also goes without saying the Surface line are luxury items.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  But why does it contain so many custom parts? Does it improve the user experience in some way?
  - jfim 6y ago
    The hinge and locking system are custom made for the Surface Book, and it's very sturdy. Many users [0] mention that they really like it as well. I'm pretty happy with my Surface Book 2 as well, it's a pretty solid computer, with the only caveats being the repairability and non-upgradeability. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6lu0kg/lets_talk_about_what_you_really_think_of_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6lu0kg/lets_talk_a...
madeofpalk 6y ago
I think that’s always been Microsoft’s point of the Surface line. The PC market is flooded with cheap laptops, and Microsoft wanted something premium to compete against Apple.
- alharith 6y ago
  Well step one should be to create a product that competes.
  - diffeomorphism 6y ago
    Higher resolution screen, better aspect ratio, touch and an ntrig pen. Seems they would need to make it more expensive for a fair competition.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Given the technical specifications of Apple's laptops it is not that hard for many of us.
    - alharith 6y ago
      Thats right. In this world, things sell on their technical specifications alone. I was so mistaken all along. I should have been taking my product advice from HN!
  - speedgoose 6y ago
    It's not a fair competition to have in the same category a mobile device with a touchscreen and a laptop with a tiny touchbar.
- cogman10 6y ago
  IDK, I think it is more to set a baseline experience expectation. (Similar to what Nexus and Pixel did for google) A LOT of PC manufacturers bundle a lot of crappy software with their laptops. MS hardware is just windows.
  - 6y ago
balls187 6y ago
Recall that the surfacebook is a 2-in-1 device. A tablet, and a laptop. While the dock is compatible with the Go, I don't believe it is the expected to be used with the Go.
masklinn 6y ago
> Microsoft appears to be pricing their hardware in line with Apple now? $1599 starting price for the Book? I get the quality and the features are up there but the price is unappealing. We'll have to see the detail of the configuration, but the original Surface Book had an entry price of 1500 (5 years ago), and it was a fairly anemic configuration (iGP, 128GB storage). The SB2 lowered the price to 1150 for a similarly anemic base configuration (no iGP and 128GB storage, and a Kaby Lake where the other models got Refresh). The book's always been a pretty premium laptop. > the surface Go even starts at a reasonable $399 but then to add a dock is $250? The dock is is 62.5% the cost of the computer? That seems rather steep You do know that the Surface Go is a tablet right? The "keyboard" is the $130 Type Cover. Getting a dock just for that seems somewhat unlikely. As in, if you already have a dock for some other surface product you might use it with a Go, you're not going to buy a dock for a Go, that's insane.
munchbunny 6y ago
The Surface Book was always a premium model and not a staple, compared to the Surface Laptop which was meant to address the lower part of the budget spectrum. The Surface Laptop is more comparable to the Macbook Air line on both features and price. Also the dock was definitely designed for a workstation setup, which the Surface Go isn't. Surface Go support seems to be incidental. I have the gen 1 version of the dock and I use it at my desk to attach two screens and a keyboard and mouse.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
A decent surface has always been in that price range
disabled 6y ago
The dock for the original Surface Go was garbage. You were always better off getting the USB-C hub.
Xunxi 6y ago
I am surprised the Surface Duo phone isn't listed, since it looks like a luxury item, and considering all the products are too be preordered. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo

kevingadd 6y ago

I think with the docks it's a no-win situation, from what I can tell the surface docks contain a display adapter (maybe 2 now for the new one since it supports multiple displays?), a NIC, a USB hub, charging circuitry, and some other random stuff. The price of all that seems to add up. I originally assumed the video out on the surface dock was just passthrough but it's not, it has its own display hardware with its own quirks and you update the firmware on it to change the behavior in some cases. In my experience a comparable USB-C dock of decent quality for my macbook is pretty expensive too, though certainly not surface dock level. I think this is just the situation we're in with how laptops and docks interact now. If more of the smarts were in the laptop than the dock the dock would probably be a lot cheaper, but that seems like it might drive up the price of the laptops.

munchbunny 6y ago
The original Surface Dock supplies power, two USB ports, two mini-displayport plugs, a headphone jack, and an ethernet port. (I'm using one right now.) With my first gen Surface Book, I'm able to drive two external screens through the dock, or use the laptop screen plus one more. Haven't tried with a Surface Book 2 yet. The nice part is that it just reuses the charging port. As far as docking stations go, it's a substantial step up from most docks. That new price tag is still pretty steep though.

justaguyhere 6y ago

Reminds me of the $999 Apple stand

notRobot 6y ago
The $999 Stand was a publicity stunt, to get people and outlets talking about Apple and maintain its apparent status as a "luxury brand" (which it's not, it's a consumer brand, albeit a slightly expensive one). But if MSFT is going for the same thing with something that's actually meant to be useful like a dock, they're just being stupid. No one views MSFT as a luxury brand anyway.
- fearface 6y ago
  No, Apple wanted to appeal to pro-sumers. The stand is for people who need the display, but already have a monitor grid to plug it in.

harrygeez 6y ago

You're paying for the r&d that does into creating these products. The Surface Book is full of custom parts, and you really don't expect it to cost the same as other OEM laptops. It also goes without saying the Surface line are luxury items.

freeone3000 6y ago
But why does it contain so many custom parts? Does it improve the user experience in some way?
- jfim 6y ago
  The hinge and locking system are custom made for the Surface Book, and it's very sturdy. Many users [0] mention that they really like it as well. I'm pretty happy with my Surface Book 2 as well, it's a pretty solid computer, with the only caveats being the repairability and non-upgradeability. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6lu0kg/lets_talk_about_what_you_really_think_of_that/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6lu0kg/lets_talk_a...

madeofpalk 6y ago

I think that’s always been Microsoft’s point of the Surface line. The PC market is flooded with cheap laptops, and Microsoft wanted something premium to compete against Apple.

alharith 6y ago
Well step one should be to create a product that competes.
- diffeomorphism 6y ago
  Higher resolution screen, better aspect ratio, touch and an ntrig pen. Seems they would need to make it more expensive for a fair competition.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Given the technical specifications of Apple's laptops it is not that hard for many of us.
  - alharith 6y ago
    Thats right. In this world, things sell on their technical specifications alone. I was so mistaken all along. I should have been taking my product advice from HN!
- speedgoose 6y ago
  It's not a fair competition to have in the same category a mobile device with a touchscreen and a laptop with a tiny touchbar.
cogman10 6y ago
IDK, I think it is more to set a baseline experience expectation. (Similar to what Nexus and Pixel did for google) A LOT of PC manufacturers bundle a lot of crappy software with their laptops. MS hardware is just windows.
- 6y ago

balls187 6y ago

Recall that the surfacebook is a 2-in-1 device. A tablet, and a laptop. While the dock is compatible with the Go, I don't believe it is the expected to be used with the Go.

masklinn 6y ago

> Microsoft appears to be pricing their hardware in line with Apple now? $1599 starting price for the Book? I get the quality and the features are up there but the price is unappealing. We'll have to see the detail of the configuration, but the original Surface Book had an entry price of 1500 (5 years ago), and it was a fairly anemic configuration (iGP, 128GB storage). The SB2 lowered the price to 1150 for a similarly anemic base configuration (no iGP and 128GB storage, and a Kaby Lake where the other models got Refresh). The book's always been a pretty premium laptop. > the surface Go even starts at a reasonable $399 but then to add a dock is $250? The dock is is 62.5% the cost of the computer? That seems rather steep You do know that the Surface Go is a tablet right? The "keyboard" is the $130 Type Cover. Getting a dock just for that seems somewhat unlikely. As in, if you already have a dock for some other surface product you might use it with a Go, you're not going to buy a dock for a Go, that's insane.

munchbunny 6y ago

The Surface Book was always a premium model and not a staple, compared to the Surface Laptop which was meant to address the lower part of the budget spectrum. The Surface Laptop is more comparable to the Macbook Air line on both features and price. Also the dock was definitely designed for a workstation setup, which the Surface Go isn't. Surface Go support seems to be incidental. I have the gen 1 version of the dock and I use it at my desk to attach two screens and a keyboard and mouse.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

A decent surface has always been in that price range

disabled 6y ago

The dock for the original Surface Go was garbage. You were always better off getting the USB-C hub.

Xunxi 6y ago

I am surprised the Surface Duo phone isn't listed, since it looks like a luxury item, and considering all the products are too be preordered. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-duo