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I must say WSL2 has genuinely been huge for me, to the point where I've finally been able to ditch macOS for a desktop with a Ryzen CPU. Honestly it's mindblow
by unicornfinder 6y ago
I must say WSL2 has genuinely been huge for me, to the point where I've finally been able to ditch macOS for a desktop with a Ryzen CPU.
Honestly it's mindblowing how far Windows has come - if I were Apple I'd genuinely be scared of losing a large proportion of power-users as Windows becomes an increasingly viable platform for development.
- k__ 6y agoHow does it compare to real Linux distributions? Does it have a package manager? Is it like Debian? What are the limitations?
- Tomte 6y agoIt is a real Debian (or, by default, Ubuntu). Original packages from Debian's servers are used. You're using apt, as usual.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- jessermeyer 6y agoWSL2 is a full blown emulator / virtualization solution, so it runs a real linux kernel / distribution. The largest downside to me is no gpu passthrough from the host.
- satvikpendem 6y agoYou can even compile your own custom kernel for it. I've had to do so in order to run some modules that the WSL 2 kernel currently doesn't have.
- tyingq 6y agoThey say GPU passthrough is on the backlog in their post build FAQ. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/wsl-2-post-build-faq/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/wsl-2-post-build-...
- jessermeyer 6y agoI've been tracking that. Almost certainly AMD exclusive since, AFAIK, NVIDIA prohibits GPU passthrough on their consumer cards so VPNs are forced into purchasing 'professional' grade GPUs.
- tym0 6y agoIt is an actual linux distribution. The default is Ubuntu but there are others (Suse, Alpine...)
- greggyb 6y agoWSL gives you a full Linux distro. You can use Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, from the top of my head. These are default options. There are others available. Additionally, you can bootstrap to other distros. I know Arch was an early target. WSL1 replaced the init process. For Ubuntu, at least, snaps were not enabled, at least out of the box. There were occasional issues early on where the syscall translation was not perfect. For me, at least, these were all ironed out after a few revisions. Unsure if there were still edges I didn't hit. WSL2 takes advantage of virtualization technology, so should be an even better Linux experience.
- texasbigdata 6y agoThere were 4 "standard" distros in the Microsoft store IIRC
- greggyb 6y agoJust double checked in a Windows VM. These are available when searching WSL in the Microsoft Store. Some of these are for a fee. There are also a few results for terminal emulators and an X server. - Ubuntu (18.04 and 20.04) - Kali - Debian - Fedora (remix for WSL) - openSUSE-Leap-15 - SUSE Linux Enterprise - Alpine - Pengwin (Debian-based and apparently optimized for WSL, and an enterprise version) - Centos (7 and 8.1) -
- tapland 6y agoYou can run various Debian distros. It works like it should. You can run an x server and get a GUI as well.
- mehrdadn 6y agoIt sounds fancy but it's just a VM with a bit more polished Windows integration.
- k__ 6y agoHm, okay. That doesn't sound impressive anymore.
- moomin 6y agoNo, but the good news is you can literally run Arch, Debian and Fedora on the same machine with shared files.
- tsar9x 6y agoSystemd is not working.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y agoI'm using full ubuntu in it. The only real pain is anything that relies on systemd (which comes up unsurprisingly often).
- Naomarik 6y agoI've also switched from Mac to a Ryzen desktop. So far the experience has been extremely good and performance is amazing. Been working with clojure and react native on WSL2 several months now. I didn't want it to be this way though. Apple has been continuously pushing out laptops that are not what I want. My Mac is also notifying me nonstop about 2FA authentication and iCloud storage, and I can't seem to turn those off. I used to eagerly await their keynote events to see what cutting edge innovations they will announce. There have been none I care about since Steve passed. The lack of a decent modern laptop (I just want a proper keyboard without touchbar, some ports, with a decent cooling system) and MacOS becoming more buggy and annoying has pushed me to find an alternative. WSL1 did not cut it for me, but WSL2 has taken Apple out of my mind entirely with regards to my development environment.
- lostmsu 6y agoWhy do you guys even use WSL? React does not work on Windows proper? If a few command line tools is all you need - there is MSYS and Git Bash. Genuinely curious: I use it mostly for testing, as some of the software we make supports Linux.
- lyricaljoke 6y agoI develop multi-platform C and C++ code (intermingled with some python for testing and automation), and my experience has been that while MSYS + Git Bash works, I run into 'rough edges' on that side much more frequently than on the WSL side.
- steveklabnik 6y agoI switched to Windows full time a few years back. I started with WSL1, but ran into some serious bugs (that have since been fixed) and made the full jump fairly quickly. I think a lot of folks take this path because it's just easier. The fact that I know I can do most of the stuff the same way I always have makes it an easier decision to make. I think there's also, for some people, an ideological component, that is, they're still using UNIX, it just happens to be in a Windows host, and that's easier to accept than come to terms with Windows just being a decent OS on its own merits. (I am not saying anyone in particular in this thread is that kind of person, of course.)
- cmrdporcupine 6y agoI really like WSL. And Windows 10, well, it's not awful. I don't hate it anymore than I hate Mac OS's GUI. I find things especially nice with the new Windows Terminal. But the piece missing is still first class support for X (or Wayland) Linux applications. Without GUI Emacs, for example, or some way of integrating the Windows Emacs well, I find the WSL experience not as productive as booting into my actual Linux partition. But it's like... 90% there. One thing I really like is that the Windows version of CLion will use SSH to connect into your WSL installation and use the Linux toolchain. So you can develop both Linux and Windows applications using the CLion GUI IDE on Windows, it's quite seamless.
- gmueckl 6y agoHave you tried using Emacs with an X server for Windows?
- cmrdporcupine 6y agoYes... it's not as well integrated as I'd like.
- akjssdk 6y agoYou can run emacs on WSL and just pass the X output to windows using an X server like VcXsrv. This works pretty seamless for me, no noticeable lag or anything.
- frankc 6y agoThis works very well. Another thing I do that works well, and I don't really see it brought up anywhere, is to use nomachine to connect to localhost. It's not seamless in the sense that you have linux apps side-by-side with native windows, but it gives you a full linux desktop experience (you need to install a linux desktop and wm in wsl for this to work well). Combining this with windows virtual desktop i can flip back and forth between windows and linux instantly without any vm.
- alexhutcheson 6y ago
- scarface74 6y agoThe Mac is 10% of Apple’s revenue. How much of that 10% do you really think are developers that would switch just because Microsoft supports Linux? Especially considering that macOS is a real certified Unix not just tacked on.
- ken 6y agoHow many developers care about "certified Unix", or can even say exactly what that means? Is anyone buying Macintosh computers in order to run their certified Unix software? Linux isn't certified, and none of developers using that seem to mind. If Microsoft got WSL "certified", would any Linux user consider it a better Linux than Linux?
- scarface74 6y agoNone. The point is how many people care about running Linux in a VM (which is all WSL2 is) on Windows instead of running a native Unix operating system? Out of those that do care about running Linux, what is the practical difference between running Linux in a VM on Windows and Linux on a VM on Macs?
- saagarjha 6y agoApple doesn’t put time and effort into making Linux on a VM feel at home on macOS.
- scarface74 6y agoIt doesn’t have to. How does WSL feel “more at home” than the third party VM solutions available for Macs?
- pjmlp 6y agoActually there are Linux distributions that are UNIX certified, namely Inspur K-UX and EulerOS 2.0. https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3617.htm https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3617.htm https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3622.htm https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3622.htm
- teleforce 6y agoThose of us who have been using Linux around the the year 2000 will remember the April fool joke on Slashdot about running Linux alongside Windows. The often repeated mantra, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you and then you win. The main reason of this seamless integration happening between Linux and Windows is most probably the fact that developers or the "cool kids" going to MacOS by the droves. Like what people normally say, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Only time will tell how many of the "developers" will come to Windows via the unthinkable Linux route, but correctly done Windows and Linux integration is a potent OS combination.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoHere we are: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/05/04/01/1453253/gentoo---gentoo-on-the-nt-kernel https://linux.slashdot.org/story/05/04/01/1453253/gentoo---g... (perhaps there were others)
- pjmlp 6y agoBack in those days, if Microsoft had seriously invested in the POSIX subsystem, I would never bothered again with Linux. We were deploying into production with Windows, Aix, HP-UX and Solaris. The Red-Hat Linux server that we had around was only for test purposes.
- driverdan 6y agoWhy use WSL2 instead of just running linux directly? Why do you need Windows in there?
- m_mueller 6y agodrivers.
- em-bee 6y agoto play windows games or run windows applications that don't work in wine or in a windows virtual machine. to comply with company policy that only supports windows on desktops.
- Kudos 6y agoVideo games. Though I've finally got a second GPU and am working on passthrough from Linux to a Windows VM.
- chupasaurus 6y agoI've solved this problem to myself by having a dedicated Wintendo.
- jfkebwjsbx 6y agoA lot of software (drivers, engineering suites, Visual Studio, games...) requires Windows or is better supported there or easier to work with. Others prefer the Windows desktop, in particular for multi-screen.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 6y agoA huge number of things are terribly supported on Linux. Just as much better linux generally is for software dev, it's that same amount worse for most else. When I last tried going full linux (admittedly over five years ago), I remember wifi being a nightmare. Netflix had issues I can't remember specifically. Even ubiquitous formats like pdfs and word docs wouldn't always work correctly. More recently, I remember spotify being a pain and youtube not working as well. Maybe it's better now, but support for new mainstream products always lags in linux. It's why so many of us try to get the best of both worlds. Dual booting with mainstream OS and linux, or ssh'ing from a mainstream OS to a machine on linux, using OSX + unix terminal, or windows + unix terminal, both options together always seems better than either option alone. Kinda like how you could do anything in C++ that you can in Python, and vice versa. But the ecosystem is often what determines the best choice. Sticking with one and only one limits you.
- Zardoz84 6y agoBetter experience you will have using native linux, insterd of a glorified VM.
- jfkebwjsbx 6y agoApple lost the development train a few years ago. Windows + Linux VM has been a better platform for a long time, even before WSL! Microsoft recognized this and wanted to boost this workflow by providing it themselves.
- electricEmu 6y agoWindows can be controlled entirely by the keyboard, out of the box (Start+ArrowKey). MacOS always required extra setup with Karabiner and other tools to mostly accomplish the same thing. The BSD derived base in MacOS made a great developer OS but the windowing system often felt lacking.
- saagarjha 6y agomacOS has full keyboard access and you don’t need Karabiner to enable it.
- electricEmu 6y agoIt's my understanding that MacOS requires extra setup for those shortcuts regardless of Karabiner. If you feel that extra setup is acceptable then any almost modern OS will fit your needs. There's something to be said for standardized shortcuts that work on every MS Windows instance.
- unicornfinder 6y agoAll you need to do is enable full keyboard access in System Preferences -> Accessibility and it'll work.
- electricEmu 6y agoWhich keyboard combination moves windows around, the same as WIN+ArrowKey, after enabling "keyboard access" in MacOS?
- kelnos 6y agoI'm not sure about that. I've been running Linux as my daily driver for a good 20 years now (minus a few years on macOS when I foolishly bought some Mac hardware too poorly-supported by Linux to be usable). I finally gave up on Mac hardware last year and bought a Dell XPS 13. I went through the Win10 setup so I could easily shrink the Windows partition and install Debian in the remaining space. It frankly disturbed the hell out of me. Windows asked for consent (default to yes, of course) for a lot of invasive things, to the point that I wondered what it was going to do without asking. And even after I said no to them, I saw what I can only describe as ads all over Windows itself. Windows pushing me to use Edge, Windows pimping Cortana even when I said I didn't want to use it, etc. In the hour or so that I used it, I never wanted to use it ever again (and, indeed, I haven't). Apple and macOS certainly have issues of their own, but I never felt like Apple was trying to advertise to me or violate my privacy. Microsoft made it very clear that they ravenously wanted to do both to me immediately. I'll stick with Debian, thanks.