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This is just my own experience but I think its just the usual political extreme sides arguing with each other. On the tea party side we have these crazy gun to

This is just my own experience but I think its just the usual political extreme sides arguing with each other. On the tea party side we have these crazy gun toting nuts (I own guns myself) that are yelling freedom and other crazy things regarding the lockdown. Storming government buildings with open carry and at least to me look like fools Then on the flip side in the Bay Area we have a bunch of tech workers, working from home and being comfy yelling that we cannot open up businesses and everyone is going to die that goes out. I look at my own company internal chat and its basically this. Unfortunately both sides and a lack of overall national leadership has detracted from the real discussion. Our news agencies on both sides are playing the extremes and nobody is talking about the real issue. Shelter-in-place does work but its only there to reduce the impact on hospitals. Its not there to prevent people from getting sick necessarily. We don't know how long this virus is going to be around. Maybe it disappears, maybe its here for a year. The whole point of sheltering is so hospitals can continue to work without being overburdened. I think in the Bay Area the hospitals have been extremely under-utilized. What we need are discussions on how to reopen safely. What type of rules do people need to follow when we do reopen. I don't want to argue what is legally allowed but I think things like wearing masks in public, public temperature checks, more testing and forcing quarantine of those and those that have been around them are all sensible if we want to get the economy going again.

madengr 7y ago
Well at this point it needs to be spread at a rate that keeps the hospitals filled (at say 80% capacity). So it’s probably good that you have people disregarding the lockdown, because at the present rate, it may take a really long time to reach herd immunity (which they say is 80% with immunity). Of course without widespread and continuous testing for the virus and antibodies, who knows how to achieve that rate. I actually am getting an antibody test through Quest tomorrow for $119. That way I’ll know if the chest cold and mild fever I had 6 weeks ago (with still lingering cough) was allergy related or the virus.
watwut 7y ago
> Then on the flip side in the Bay Area we have a bunch of tech workers, working from home and being comfy yelling that we cannot open up businesses and everyone is going to die that goes out. Based on polls, most Americans are for shelter in place and are afraid of economy opening up too soon. The people who are for opening are not concentrated within groups who lost jobs, but are rather spread out over the society. The thing about lower paid workers is that they are also the most affected by Covid, most likely to get it, more likely to die from it and more likely to know someone who dies. More affected by healthcare price too if they dont die but merely need hospital. You can see that in stats from New Yourk too - middle class people able to work from home and just not as much affected as those who work in low paid jobs. The place where I see most pressure for opening economy is HN - Bay Area tech workers. People here dont work in meat plants nor in essential services nor in Amazon. Their employers wont have them working in close proximity with other people even when those are having symptoms. They wont get Covid and wont spread it to elderly relatives regardless of whether economy is open or not.
- infecto 7y ago
  I think this is again part of the problem with all the misinformation going around. At some point its too much, we have massive levels of unemployment and for many parts of the country, underutilized hospitals. We need a leader that helps focus the message on what criteria is necessary to open and how to do it safely. There are many countries that have sane rules and the exposure rate is pretty damn low. Instead of distracting the conversation about low-paid workers and who is most at risk. We should be looking at the data both the financial and health side and figure out how to manage both.
  - watwut 7y ago
    Answering one of your points is not "distracting the conversation". Your claim was that one side is "Bay Area workers telling everyone to stay home". Answering it with "no actually this is not some kind of Bay Area tech only" phenomenon is completely legitimate. There is no rule that we should accept made up divisions between groups of people just because it suits you. > There are many countries that have sane rules and the exposure rate is pretty damn low. Sure, lets say German or Czech republic. The sane rules still involved closing stores, limiting amount of people in stores, closed schools, mandated hands sanitation upon entering stores. Mandated masks in public places or plexiglass between shoppers and sellers. Their hospitals also instantly limited non-covid related procedures and were underutilized and still are despite countries slowly opening. Both countries also had citizens who were fairly disciplined. Their top politicians did not claimed it is all hoax by opposing party to destroy the country. Czech Republic reacted quite fast to first few sick people and mandated masks right away. Germany ramped up testing quickly and super high. They did contact tracing before virus spread. > We need a leader that helps focus the message on what criteria is necessary to open and how to do it safely. Maybe start by not forcing both-sides framework on everything. Or making strawman groups of Bay Area tech workers who are definitely only ones making America close. Had there be elevated testing regime now, opening would be closer. Had there been faster reaction by the start of it all, the New York did not had to happen and America could be where Germany or Czech Republic is. And it does not seem to me that this state of things is both sides issue nor Bay Area techies issue.

madengr 7y ago

Well at this point it needs to be spread at a rate that keeps the hospitals filled (at say 80% capacity). So it’s probably good that you have people disregarding the lockdown, because at the present rate, it may take a really long time to reach herd immunity (which they say is 80% with immunity). Of course without widespread and continuous testing for the virus and antibodies, who knows how to achieve that rate. I actually am getting an antibody test through Quest tomorrow for $119. That way I’ll know if the chest cold and mild fever I had 6 weeks ago (with still lingering cough) was allergy related or the virus.

watwut 7y ago

> Then on the flip side in the Bay Area we have a bunch of tech workers, working from home and being comfy yelling that we cannot open up businesses and everyone is going to die that goes out. Based on polls, most Americans are for shelter in place and are afraid of economy opening up too soon. The people who are for opening are not concentrated within groups who lost jobs, but are rather spread out over the society. The thing about lower paid workers is that they are also the most affected by Covid, most likely to get it, more likely to die from it and more likely to know someone who dies. More affected by healthcare price too if they dont die but merely need hospital. You can see that in stats from New Yourk too - middle class people able to work from home and just not as much affected as those who work in low paid jobs. The place where I see most pressure for opening economy is HN - Bay Area tech workers. People here dont work in meat plants nor in essential services nor in Amazon. Their employers wont have them working in close proximity with other people even when those are having symptoms. They wont get Covid and wont spread it to elderly relatives regardless of whether economy is open or not.

infecto 7y ago
I think this is again part of the problem with all the misinformation going around. At some point its too much, we have massive levels of unemployment and for many parts of the country, underutilized hospitals. We need a leader that helps focus the message on what criteria is necessary to open and how to do it safely. There are many countries that have sane rules and the exposure rate is pretty damn low. Instead of distracting the conversation about low-paid workers and who is most at risk. We should be looking at the data both the financial and health side and figure out how to manage both.
- watwut 7y ago
  Answering one of your points is not "distracting the conversation". Your claim was that one side is "Bay Area workers telling everyone to stay home". Answering it with "no actually this is not some kind of Bay Area tech only" phenomenon is completely legitimate. There is no rule that we should accept made up divisions between groups of people just because it suits you. > There are many countries that have sane rules and the exposure rate is pretty damn low. Sure, lets say German or Czech republic. The sane rules still involved closing stores, limiting amount of people in stores, closed schools, mandated hands sanitation upon entering stores. Mandated masks in public places or plexiglass between shoppers and sellers. Their hospitals also instantly limited non-covid related procedures and were underutilized and still are despite countries slowly opening. Both countries also had citizens who were fairly disciplined. Their top politicians did not claimed it is all hoax by opposing party to destroy the country. Czech Republic reacted quite fast to first few sick people and mandated masks right away. Germany ramped up testing quickly and super high. They did contact tracing before virus spread. > We need a leader that helps focus the message on what criteria is necessary to open and how to do it safely. Maybe start by not forcing both-sides framework on everything. Or making strawman groups of Bay Area tech workers who are definitely only ones making America close. Had there be elevated testing regime now, opening would be closer. Had there been faster reaction by the start of it all, the New York did not had to happen and America could be where Germany or Czech Republic is. And it does not seem to me that this state of things is both sides issue nor Bay Area techies issue.