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Wanna Do Business in Pyongyang? Call Alejandro Cao de Benós
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- Ididntdothis 6y ago“He rejects all questions about extrajudicial killings or humanitarian atrocities as propaganda: “The media is often reporting that we execute people, which is not true,” he claims.” Interesting article. I often wonder about the mindset of people who deny the obvious facts. Does he really believe it or is he just cynical?
- themodelplumber 6y ago> Does he really believe it or is he just cynical Neither, IMO. From observing him over the years, he knows what's good for him, and he knows how to get a good vibe going with others at the same time. The vibe can make anything true or false and is not known for being concerned with moral true/false questions, which get into subjective (qualitative) ethics. (You can argue that those same ethics prevent reasonably helpful business from being done in many cases, as distasteful as it sounds.) I'd add that he has a good nose for opportunity and a higher than average threshold for risk. This is your typical "fixer" type.
- mc32 6y agoIt’s probably like being an ambassador from a country with lots of controversy around human rights and so on and they get interviewed when something big hits the news. It’s not like they don’t know what happens but it’s in their and their countries’ interest to see things differently.
- hangphyr 6y agoProbably this. No atrocities committed by any government were done because the government viewed itself as 'evil' so it must do evil things, the perpetrators always view their crimes as justified for some form of greater good. If one believes a single lie is just a single stepping stone on the path to some grand utopia, or if that lie would prevent some chaos (social disorder, rebellion, etc), some will have no problems telling that lie as many times as they need to.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoAn ambassador is a citizen of their country and is subject to getting recalled and being sent to reform-through-labor camp to forage corn kernels from frozen pig shit if they don't toe the line. This guy, on the hand, has voluntarily chosen to be an apologist and enabler for one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.
- Ididntdothis 6y ago“one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet.“ Does North Korea have any competition for this title? I thought they were number one on that list.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y agoEritrea is right up there as well, but they don't have nukes, so nobody cares. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Eritrea
- jacobush 6y agoOn the other hand, should the stars align so that anyone cares, Eritrea is open to foreign intervention. Libya cancelled its nuclear program in the early 21st century and welcomed UN inspections. Then an international alliance force removed Gaddafi from power and he was killed. I am sure would-be-dictators all over the world are taking note - if you have nukes, you don't face invasion.
- hackerman123469 6y agoUnless you have "nukes"
- mc32 6y agoAlthough he was a bad guy, doublecrossing him was a terrible choice and we’re feeling the consequences of that hubris. That said what keeps the west from invading NKorea aren’t the nukes. It’s the katyusha and other conventional armament that would rain down on Seoul a few Kms across the border.
- peisistratos 6y agoThe 2nd largest company on the Fortune 500 has its executives doing major business with a government that dismembers Washington Post employees in foreign embassies. In fact, US defense contractors were profiting off their slaughter of Yemenis until recently. The attempts to look abroad and decide to find someone to find fault with is risible.
- chance_state 6y agoIs this something other than "America bad"? What do US defense contractors have to do with any of this?
- vkou 6y agoIt's pointing out that there's no shortage of legitimate businesses that ignore or deny uncomfortable facts about the people they are working with.
- peisistratos 6y agoThe web site this comes from is named for someone who said about Israeld killing of hundreds of children in Gaza bombings "Israel cannot have a proportional response" against the Palestinians.
- lonelappde 6y agoDoes it matter if he believes it? What matters are his actions.
- DavidVoid 6y ago>I often wonder about the mindset of people who deny the obvious facts. Does he really believe it or is he just cynical? This just made me think of Baghdad Bob so I looked him up and apparently he is still alive and allegedly living in the UAE. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago> It would be interesting to hear what he thinks now of all the obvious lies he told almost two decades ago. “If only I was in America, then with my talents I would have had an awesome career in law, politics, or business.”
- Ididntdothis 6y agoBaghdad Bob came to mind too. Do you know more? I bet he is doing really well. People like him are very useful as propagandists.
- knolax 6y agoFunny you mention Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf considering it's been proven in hindsight that Iraq didn't have WMDs, in addition to the devastation that the invasion did to his country. ISIS wouldn't exist if your lot believed in his "obvious lies".
- chrischen 6y agoThe guy is clearly lying considering that even the US does extra-judicial killings both inside (citizen-citizen) and outside the country (Drone strikes, CIA assassinations), regular executions of people (death penalty, even for treason). Most Americans don’t bat an eye that they pay taxes to fund this. As long as it’s in our interest we turn a blind eye. As long as it’s someone else we look down on them.
- anonu 6y ago> people who deny the obvious facts Not a DPRK apologist. But I wouldn't really say "obvious" with respect to anything coming out of there... Just two weeks ago rumors ran rampant that the leader was dead... We just have no clue.
- tptacek 6y agoWe have firsthand accounts of the abuse of North Korean citizens.
- Ididntdothis 6y agoAnd pictures.
- shadowprofile77 6y agoI have no doubt that there's rampant human rights abuse in NK but where have you seen photos of their abuse? I'd imagine they'd be very careful about that.
- Ididntdothis 6y agoThere are satellite pictures of the camps and I remember seeing cell phone picture of the inside. That together with the very consistent descriptions of people who have escaped from there should be enough.
- pvg 6y agowhere have you seen photos of their abuse? There have been pictures, even cellphone video of things like public executions. Here's one recent report but people have been escaping the place and bringing evidence of abuse out for years. https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-executions-20190610-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-north-korea-public-execu...
- ecuaflo 6y agopaywall :(
- pmachinery 6y agoIf you have Firefox, open Reader View (CTRL+ALT+R) and reload. (Assuming it's the same issue I had, viewing in a private window.)
- morsch 6y agoOr disable JS, e.g. the </> button in uBlock. That disables images as well, which is mostly a downside.
- AlexTrask 6y agoThis man apeared some times in the spanish TV. He avoids questions about censorship and critic questions. It's just regime propaganda
- oarabbus_ 6y agoBy the context I am understanding he spouts NK regime propaganda to the Spanish people?
- kace91 6y agoYup (I’m a Spaniard as well). Take this with a grain of salt as I’m talking from memory, but I think he’s acted as a middleman with North Korea to set up trips to the country for tourism, including for some Spanish journalists that were taken through very controlled routes. I remember the guy kept talking about how the North Koreans don’t mess around and so the people should be careful, about how great the Kim family is and about how proud he is to be so well considered by the regime. I remember wondering if it’s all just a charade for him that allows him to have contact with North Korea (as in, him being some sort of agent), if he just found his business niche, of if he’s an idiot who drank the kool aid because he likes to feel he’s important. As an aside, I was impressed watching those documentaries by how many North Korean officials spoke perfect Spanish without any trace of an accent. Apparently some of them had lived and studied in Cuba for some time. Edit: I found it, the documentary is called 'En tierra hostil', from 2015. It's currently only legally available under subscription from A3player, a streaming service from a private Spanish TV channel, but it might be viewable in other sites.
- jacobush 6y agoThe Soviet Union used to have diplomats and "attaches" who spoke pitch perfect Swedish.
- changoplatanero 6y agoJust read the opening two paragraphs. Whoever wrote that is totally clueless about how the Mormon church does its missionary assignments.
- therealissues 6y ago"Lately, Cao de Benós says he’s fostered agreements with European companies to use cheap, skilled labor on technology projects. “We develop a lot of apps for Android and iOS, and very cheap,” he says. “And we are very strong in animation. We export a lot for all kinds of modern cartoons.” He cites an example, but obliquely: “Let’s say you’re making a cartoon, and you are outsourcing the work. So you go to Romania, because you know it’s very cheap.” But the Romanian company knows of an even cheaper option. Its representative flies to Pyongyang and makes a deal for the same work at half the cost—and then gets 50% of the fee without employing anyone. “This has happened,” he says. He will not name movies. Nor popular video games. North Korean labor is also behind websites and crypto, he says. The shadow hands of globally sanctioned socialist labor are all around us." I am particularly interested in the double outsource example he mentioned involving Romania. We know it's a shady country however, I think this happens more often and in more parts of the world. So it is entirely possible that companies that outsourced work from the US have paid for labor in North Korea without knowing about it or knowing about it and wanting to take advantage of a better project quote. Sounds like a good investigative story for a tech journalist to pick up. This could also be a security and privacy risk. Think of proxies of funneling data from consumers. Oh, how I hope for an app store where a tab would be present to see everyone who was involved which created the app and its web services and the github history of it. Wasn't the blockchain supposed to be the end all fix of transparency across the supply chain?
- virgilp 6y ago> We know it's a shady country You think it is - in reality, it's not really so shady. He probably picked the name not because it's true but because it's believable.
- therealissues 6y agoNope, it is. I am from there and can certainly tell you that it's true. Nice job trying to cover it up though. Virgil! It is full of bullshitters, thieves, and good people who are misled by their government which plays on their hopes and fucks them up the ass while they protest their hearts away every year. Then again I could substitute any other country name and the sentence would still make sense wouldn't it? Definitely doesn't help that a lot of scams originate there.
- riffraff 6y agoIf you haven't seen it, The Propaganda Game[0] featuring this guy is a wonderful documentary [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4206218/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4206218/
- mportela 6y ago+1. I was on my way to recommend this documentary.
- saagarjha 6y agoSome discussion on the events at the embassy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22779746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22779746
- kick 6y agoThanks for linking to this discussion; I missed it when it happened.
- DavidVoid 6y agoI'm a bit surprised that companies are even doing business with North Korea considering how unreliable they have been in the past. In the 70s, when they at least seemed to be on par with South Korea in terms of development [1], they imported mining equipment and 1,000 cars from Sweden but never fully paid for them [2]. I guess the risk is worth it for some companies/individuals if they're only spending a few thousand dollars to potentially save many more. > “Let’s say you’re making a cartoon, and you are outsourcing the work. So you go to Romania, because you know it’s very cheap.” But the Romanian company knows of an even cheaper option. Its representative flies to Pyongyang and makes a deal for the same work at half the cost—and then gets 50% of the fee without employing anyone. “This has happened,” he says. He will not name movies. Nor popular video games. North Korean labor is also behind websites and crypto, he says. The shadow hands of globally sanctioned socialist labor are all around us. The Onion was right all along [3]. And I know this is a pretty stereotypical nitpick, but I wish they (both the author and Cao de Benós) would be more specific and refer to DPRK's ideology as Juche [4], instead of just calling it socialism. Ignoring nuances in political ideologies just makes them more difficult to discuss. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_North_Korea#/media/File:Two_koreas_gdp_1950_1977.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_North_Korea#/media/... [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/04/547390622/how-1-000-volvos-ended-up-in-north-korea-and-made-a-diplomatic-difference https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/04/547390622/... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYaZ57Bn4pQ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche
- neonate 6y agohttps://archive.md/Khk4a https://archive.md/Khk4a
- tdeck 6y agoFor more about this guy I highly recommend watching the documentary Friends of Kim in which he plays a starring role. You can even find it on YouTube. TL;DR he and a bunch of "friends of the DPRK" went to NK to participate in a parade and shout "Yankee Go Home" but then he started acting suspicious and turned on other members of the group. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C76HqPaA6kw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C76HqPaA6kw
- strategarius 6y agoWhich proves ancient statement "Greed and cowardliness rule the world". I'm sure, there are people even in Western democracies, who perfectly aware where their outsource projects comes from. Not to say about China and Russia - they use slave labor of North Koreans for decades. Slaves from North Korea built stadiums for World Cup 2018 [0] in Russia. Everyone there knew about it (I'm Russian as well), there was plenty of evidence. Did anyone boycott the games? [0] https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3205842/russia-2018-world-cup-stadium-being-built-using-north-korean-slaves-on-45p-an-hour/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3205842/russia-2018-world-cup...