12 ms·

I'd love to know what group or person at Microsoft decides what looks "good". I want to know why they decided to go the direction that they have, and why exactl

I'd love to know what group or person at Microsoft decides what looks "good". I want to know why they decided to go the direction that they have, and why exactly they cant get everybody on board to go the same direction. My guess is there was probably one design committee that decided that things needed to look different, because the "future is now", we can't remind people of older versions of windows because visually that isn't progress, and we can't be reminiscent of the "bad old days" when things crashed often. Then after that committee makes it's decree, everybody who has control over their own little gui fiefdom each decides "nah.. that looks terrible and we aren't going to be cohesive, so lets do our own thing over here." And so, everything looks and acts a little different. Since not everybody got on board with the change, the original committee digs in their heels and says, "Well it obviously doesn't work because not everybody is on board with OUR design."

projektfu 6y ago
It all comes from walking back the changes in Windows 8 without acting like they made a mistake. Nobody was prepared for Metro UI and it was widely disliked by users. But going directly back to Aero would make them lose face.
- asveikau 6y ago
  Still disappointed they got rid of the Classic view setting in win8.
  - mostlysimilar 6y ago
    Why do you think it is that these sorts of things have been disappearing from software? It used to be that we could change the colors and themes of our UIs, in this case all of the way down to the OS level. Nowadays it's a major feature for a bit of software to introduce "dark" mode.
    - asdff 6y ago
      Part of it is laziness, part of it is this lurking impression that users should be coddled and are too dumb to hold the reigns on a machine they own outright.
    - linguae 6y ago
      I believe a part of this has to do with some software products wanting to control the look-and-feel of their applications as part of brand recognition, which runs counter to the idea that GUI applications should conform to the UI guidelines set in place by the operating system or desktop environment. Some people blame this on modern Web trends, but this phenomenon is not new. A lot of video games for Windows or the Mac never conformed to their platforms' UI guidelines. I also remember when Apple ported iTunes and Safari to Windows during the Windows XP era and the controversy caused by these programs refusal to conform to Windows' UI guidelines (interestingly enough, the Windows port of ClarisWorks conformed to Windows' UI guidelines). Even Microsoft doesn't always adhere to Windows' guidelines; Microsoft Office 97 introduced the Tahoma font, flat toolbars, and other elements, which did not adhere to Windows 95's look-and-feel guidelines, and although Office 97 could run on Windows NT 3.51, it didn't even bother conforming to the look-and-feel of that operating system, which still followed Windows 3.1-style semantics. (To be fair, though, the styling of Microsoft Office 97 was a foretaste of the styling of Windows 2000, which used Tahoma as the system font. Office 97 blends in perfectly with Windows 2000.) This "look-and-feel-as-branding" philosophy has now entered parts of the Linux community, as evidenced in this public letter to the GNOME community titled "Please don't theme our apps" asking Linux distributions to not apply custom themes to GNOME applications (https://stopthemingmy.app https://stopthemingmy.app). Personally I'm a major proponent of native GUI applications conforming to their platform's UI standards, and I'm also a proponent of users being able to theme their environments. In my opinion the purpose of personal computing is to empower the user. Users should be able to control their work environments and their workflows as they see fit. Unfortunately I feel that this philosophy of user empowerment has been slowly challenged, where the user experience is being controlled.
    - ukyrgf 6y ago
      I used to run the application skins section on deviantart way back in the day. What is now marketed as "dark mode" is what every kid would put up as their first skin. "I turned white black and black white!" It always amuses me to see people absolutely freaking out when programs add this feature today.
- simiones 6y ago
  It was so disliked by users, that the general feel of Metro UI was copied by all major UI platforms within 5 years.
  - badsectoracula 6y ago
    It was disliked by users but designers really loved it so they forced it everywhere they had an ounce of power. Notice how UIs that didn't have to please some designer didn't bother with flat UIs.
  - projektfu 6y ago
    No, not at all. Metro was tiles, sliding overlays and everything full screen. It works on tablets but poorly on desktop PC and most laptops. I don’t see anything really like it in the “work computer” domain.
ksec 6y ago
I think Steve Jobs puts it best; The problem with Microsoft is that they “simply have no taste.” Windows has always had their Windowish / Microsoftish smell to its design. Much like Linux, You could spot a linux desktop from 100 miles away. And everyone thought these were simple you could just copy it. Turns out there are trillions of small details that make it all coherent and beautiful.
- flowerlad 6y ago
  > The problem with Microsoft is that they “simply have no taste.” You can say that about Apple today too. After all, in iOS7 they copied the Flat UI from Microsoft, including thin fonts, and buttons that don't look like buttons and so on. Although more recently they have removed thin fonts in their designs.
  - ksec 6y ago
    I felt that is what happen when you put a Industrial Designer in charge of Software Design. I know it feels a little harsh, but Jony without Steve is a Designer without Product Manager. Steve Jobs is great being an Editor and Product Executive.
    - philistine 6y ago
      The decisions made since Ive has left Have me hopeful for a better future at Apple. They’re never going to be perfect, but things are going in the right direction. Their laptops are getting ticker for crying out loud!
      - ksec 6y ago
        Yes, and lot of Software and UI element are coming back. I am glad despite the massive changes, those quality were not loss. I cant help but think Jony knew he was getting burn out without Steve. And he wanted to get those last design to be perfect before he left.
      - rayiner 6y ago
flowerlad 6y ago
I believe Flat UI was the invention of Albert Shum (as reported by CNET at the time, he came up with Windows Phone Metro UI). You can see his articles here: https://medium.com/@alshumdesign https://medium.com/@alshumdesign > "nah.. that looks terrible and we aren't going to be cohesive, so lets do our own thing over here." I wish this were the case. Instead all Microsoft products have switched to the ugly Flat UI, including Word, PowerPoint, Excel, etc.
- iforgotpassword 6y ago
  The thing is, flat UI worked really well on the phone, which it was designed for. It's just that some idiot manager came up with the "unified experience" idea and shoved that shit onto desktop Windows without any time for polish. Ironically I think pretty much anyone's first experience with metro was Windows 8 on PC, which was such a disaster that people wouldn't even give Windows phone a try because it had the same UI that they learned to hate. Not to say this is the reason Windows Phone failed, but probably one of the many factors.
  - DHPersonal 6y ago
    Windows Phone had the best UI of the three major phone operating systems, in my opinion. The Metro UI tile system is a great home screen system, and the layered swipe left/right process made a lot of sense.
- rige 6y ago
  At the same time, there are other people who like the newer UI style much more. I think it looks and functions better. These are matters of personal opinion, including the end judgments of whatever team created it.
  - flowerlad 6y ago
    No it is not just a matter of personal opinion. Studies have shown that Flat UI is harder to figure out. More on that here: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/
basch 6y ago
Except it looks exactly like Encarta 2000 and Watercolor XP.

projektfu 6y ago

It all comes from walking back the changes in Windows 8 without acting like they made a mistake. Nobody was prepared for Metro UI and it was widely disliked by users. But going directly back to Aero would make them lose face.

asveikau 6y ago
Still disappointed they got rid of the Classic view setting in win8.
- mostlysimilar 6y ago
  Why do you think it is that these sorts of things have been disappearing from software? It used to be that we could change the colors and themes of our UIs, in this case all of the way down to the OS level. Nowadays it's a major feature for a bit of software to introduce "dark" mode.
  - asdff 6y ago
    Part of it is laziness, part of it is this lurking impression that users should be coddled and are too dumb to hold the reigns on a machine they own outright.
  - linguae 6y ago
    I believe a part of this has to do with some software products wanting to control the look-and-feel of their applications as part of brand recognition, which runs counter to the idea that GUI applications should conform to the UI guidelines set in place by the operating system or desktop environment. Some people blame this on modern Web trends, but this phenomenon is not new. A lot of video games for Windows or the Mac never conformed to their platforms' UI guidelines. I also remember when Apple ported iTunes and Safari to Windows during the Windows XP era and the controversy caused by these programs refusal to conform to Windows' UI guidelines (interestingly enough, the Windows port of ClarisWorks conformed to Windows' UI guidelines). Even Microsoft doesn't always adhere to Windows' guidelines; Microsoft Office 97 introduced the Tahoma font, flat toolbars, and other elements, which did not adhere to Windows 95's look-and-feel guidelines, and although Office 97 could run on Windows NT 3.51, it didn't even bother conforming to the look-and-feel of that operating system, which still followed Windows 3.1-style semantics. (To be fair, though, the styling of Microsoft Office 97 was a foretaste of the styling of Windows 2000, which used Tahoma as the system font. Office 97 blends in perfectly with Windows 2000.) This "look-and-feel-as-branding" philosophy has now entered parts of the Linux community, as evidenced in this public letter to the GNOME community titled "Please don't theme our apps" asking Linux distributions to not apply custom themes to GNOME applications (https://stopthemingmy.app https://stopthemingmy.app). Personally I'm a major proponent of native GUI applications conforming to their platform's UI standards, and I'm also a proponent of users being able to theme their environments. In my opinion the purpose of personal computing is to empower the user. Users should be able to control their work environments and their workflows as they see fit. Unfortunately I feel that this philosophy of user empowerment has been slowly challenged, where the user experience is being controlled.
  - ukyrgf 6y ago
    I used to run the application skins section on deviantart way back in the day. What is now marketed as "dark mode" is what every kid would put up as their first skin. "I turned white black and black white!" It always amuses me to see people absolutely freaking out when programs add this feature today.
simiones 6y ago
It was so disliked by users, that the general feel of Metro UI was copied by all major UI platforms within 5 years.
- badsectoracula 6y ago
  It was disliked by users but designers really loved it so they forced it everywhere they had an ounce of power. Notice how UIs that didn't have to please some designer didn't bother with flat UIs.
- projektfu 6y ago
  No, not at all. Metro was tiles, sliding overlays and everything full screen. It works on tablets but poorly on desktop PC and most laptops. I don’t see anything really like it in the “work computer” domain.

ksec 6y ago

I think Steve Jobs puts it best; The problem with Microsoft is that they “simply have no taste.” Windows has always had their Windowish / Microsoftish smell to its design. Much like Linux, You could spot a linux desktop from 100 miles away. And everyone thought these were simple you could just copy it. Turns out there are trillions of small details that make it all coherent and beautiful.

flowerlad 6y ago
> The problem with Microsoft is that they “simply have no taste.” You can say that about Apple today too. After all, in iOS7 they copied the Flat UI from Microsoft, including thin fonts, and buttons that don't look like buttons and so on. Although more recently they have removed thin fonts in their designs.
- ksec 6y ago
  I felt that is what happen when you put a Industrial Designer in charge of Software Design. I know it feels a little harsh, but Jony without Steve is a Designer without Product Manager. Steve Jobs is great being an Editor and Product Executive.
  - philistine 6y ago
    The decisions made since Ive has left Have me hopeful for a better future at Apple. They’re never going to be perfect, but things are going in the right direction. Their laptops are getting ticker for crying out loud!
    - ksec 6y ago
      Yes, and lot of Software and UI element are coming back. I am glad despite the massive changes, those quality were not loss. I cant help but think Jony knew he was getting burn out without Steve. And he wanted to get those last design to be perfect before he left.
    - rayiner 6y ago

flowerlad 6y ago

I believe Flat UI was the invention of Albert Shum (as reported by CNET at the time, he came up with Windows Phone Metro UI). You can see his articles here: https://medium.com/@alshumdesign https://medium.com/@alshumdesign > "nah.. that looks terrible and we aren't going to be cohesive, so lets do our own thing over here." I wish this were the case. Instead all Microsoft products have switched to the ugly Flat UI, including Word, PowerPoint, Excel, etc.

iforgotpassword 6y ago
The thing is, flat UI worked really well on the phone, which it was designed for. It's just that some idiot manager came up with the "unified experience" idea and shoved that shit onto desktop Windows without any time for polish. Ironically I think pretty much anyone's first experience with metro was Windows 8 on PC, which was such a disaster that people wouldn't even give Windows phone a try because it had the same UI that they learned to hate. Not to say this is the reason Windows Phone failed, but probably one of the many factors.
- DHPersonal 6y ago
  Windows Phone had the best UI of the three major phone operating systems, in my opinion. The Metro UI tile system is a great home screen system, and the layered swipe left/right process made a lot of sense.
rige 6y ago
At the same time, there are other people who like the newer UI style much more. I think it looks and functions better. These are matters of personal opinion, including the end judgments of whatever team created it.
- flowerlad 6y ago
  No it is not just a matter of personal opinion. Studies have shown that Flat UI is harder to figure out. More on that here: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/

basch 6y ago

Except it looks exactly like Encarta 2000 and Watercolor XP.