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> Nobody is stopping you from owning a factory Seriously? Should they eat cake as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.

> Nobody is stopping you from owning a factory Seriously? Should they eat cake as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

manigandham 6y ago
Seriously, who's stopping you? It's ironic to say that on HN when YC has helped launch thousands of companies and several self-made billionaires. The ability to hire and fire fast is undeniably helpful for companies, and being able to quit and move to new jobs is just as useful for personal career development. It might not be for everyone, but it's not any less valid.
- adrianN 6y ago
  The typical member of the precariat doesn't have the financial means of taking an unpaid sick day. How on earth do you imagine that they have the means of starting their own company?
  - manigandham 6y ago
    The discussion was about at-will employment in America. There are pros/cons to both employee and employer, and it is an absolute truth that this arrangement helps companies grow and helps employees eventually start their own companies - as opposed to different regulatory environments. Adding more regulations will bring equivalent trade-offs because that's the reality of economics. Do you disagree? If you want to get bogged down in technicalities and anecdotes though, then sure life isn't fair. I worked manual labor before and now own multiple properties. I guess it's just magic.
    - slumpt_ 6y ago
      No one suggested it was magic. What it often is - statistically - is socioeconomics. It’s more or less the single best predictor of outcomes for you and yours. There are outliers, but we’re talking about broad systemic patterns. You evidently went to an okay UC - you probably had supportive parents. Be it emotional or financial support. Perhaps both! Perhaps your family life was reasonably stable. Perhaps you had three square meals most of your youth. The point is that you are in a position to access capital that is markedly different from a lot of individuals born into lower socioeconomics striations in society and the statistics are weighed :heavily: against them. This is often through no fault of their own. Thank your lucky stars the world aligned for you as it did. Where and with whom you started that life made a far bigger difference than any perceived grit you might think you exercised.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Let me just go find a cash machine and withdraw the $X million needed to buy me a factory. Nobody’s stopping me!
  - manigandham 6y ago
    That's called venture capital, or a loan, or a mortgage; things that millions of others have used to start their own businesses. Happy to make some intro's for you. Let me know.
    - LunaSea 6y ago
      Loans with no collateral ... right.
      - manigandham 6y ago
        Sometimes. Or you give up equity. Or secure it some other way. What's your point? That it's hard to do?
        LunaSea 6y ago
        That you can't get a loan when you don't have collateral which is the case when you are not already wealthy.
        manigandham 6y ago
        Then get a job and save up some collateral. That's how many people start. This is really not that complicated.
        LunaSea 6y ago
        But that's not always possible when you don't have a good enough job to save which is the reality for a majority of Americans since they live pacheck to paycheck.
adrianN 6y ago
All it takes is a small loan of a million dollars.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Sure, because nobody has ever taken a loan to start a business before. And VC funding doesn't exist. And mortgages are a falsehood. And companies are never bootstrapped either. I guess eventually owning a factory is just impossible right?
  - adrianN 6y ago
    Yeah and I could become a rock star if I started playing the guitar. Getting loans is hard, especially if you're one of the working poor. Starting a company that doesn't die after a few years is harder. When you're one of the 40% of Americans who can't cover an unexpected $400 expense, if you company fails you're fucked. The social safety net in the US is a joke.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Yes, it's a trade-off. Less regulation and more freedom and flexibility at the cost of more social risk and personal responsibility. That's the American way. I was simply stating that truth, not defending it nor saying other realities can't exist. But there is always a trade-off. What part of that is so controversial? Perhaps things have changed and the balance needs to be shifted now. That's a great discussion to have, but let's actually have a discussion then.
      - adrianN 6y ago
        "Just buy your own factory" as a response to the power imbalance between the workers and the owners of the means of production is the controversial statement.
        manigandham 6y ago

> Nobody is stopping you from owning a factory Seriously? Should they eat cake as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake

manigandham 6y ago

Seriously, who's stopping you? It's ironic to say that on HN when YC has helped launch thousands of companies and several self-made billionaires. The ability to hire and fire fast is undeniably helpful for companies, and being able to quit and move to new jobs is just as useful for personal career development. It might not be for everyone, but it's not any less valid.

adrianN 6y ago
The typical member of the precariat doesn't have the financial means of taking an unpaid sick day. How on earth do you imagine that they have the means of starting their own company?
- manigandham 6y ago
  The discussion was about at-will employment in America. There are pros/cons to both employee and employer, and it is an absolute truth that this arrangement helps companies grow and helps employees eventually start their own companies - as opposed to different regulatory environments. Adding more regulations will bring equivalent trade-offs because that's the reality of economics. Do you disagree? If you want to get bogged down in technicalities and anecdotes though, then sure life isn't fair. I worked manual labor before and now own multiple properties. I guess it's just magic.
  - slumpt_ 6y ago
    No one suggested it was magic. What it often is - statistically - is socioeconomics. It’s more or less the single best predictor of outcomes for you and yours. There are outliers, but we’re talking about broad systemic patterns. You evidently went to an okay UC - you probably had supportive parents. Be it emotional or financial support. Perhaps both! Perhaps your family life was reasonably stable. Perhaps you had three square meals most of your youth. The point is that you are in a position to access capital that is markedly different from a lot of individuals born into lower socioeconomics striations in society and the statistics are weighed :heavily: against them. This is often through no fault of their own. Thank your lucky stars the world aligned for you as it did. Where and with whom you started that life made a far bigger difference than any perceived grit you might think you exercised.
ryandrake 6y ago
Let me just go find a cash machine and withdraw the $X million needed to buy me a factory. Nobody’s stopping me!
- manigandham 6y ago
  That's called venture capital, or a loan, or a mortgage; things that millions of others have used to start their own businesses. Happy to make some intro's for you. Let me know.
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    Loans with no collateral ... right.
    - manigandham 6y ago
      Sometimes. Or you give up equity. Or secure it some other way. What's your point? That it's hard to do?
      - LunaSea 6y ago
        That you can't get a loan when you don't have collateral which is the case when you are not already wealthy.
        manigandham 6y ago
        Then get a job and save up some collateral. That's how many people start. This is really not that complicated.
        LunaSea 6y ago
        But that's not always possible when you don't have a good enough job to save which is the reality for a majority of Americans since they live pacheck to paycheck.

adrianN 6y ago

All it takes is a small loan of a million dollars.

manigandham 6y ago
Sure, because nobody has ever taken a loan to start a business before. And VC funding doesn't exist. And mortgages are a falsehood. And companies are never bootstrapped either. I guess eventually owning a factory is just impossible right?
- adrianN 6y ago
  Yeah and I could become a rock star if I started playing the guitar. Getting loans is hard, especially if you're one of the working poor. Starting a company that doesn't die after a few years is harder. When you're one of the 40% of Americans who can't cover an unexpected $400 expense, if you company fails you're fucked. The social safety net in the US is a joke.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Yes, it's a trade-off. Less regulation and more freedom and flexibility at the cost of more social risk and personal responsibility. That's the American way. I was simply stating that truth, not defending it nor saying other realities can't exist. But there is always a trade-off. What part of that is so controversial? Perhaps things have changed and the balance needs to be shifted now. That's a great discussion to have, but let's actually have a discussion then.
    - adrianN 6y ago
      "Just buy your own factory" as a response to the power imbalance between the workers and the owners of the means of production is the controversial statement.
      - manigandham 6y ago