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I think European dev market is a lot more complex than that; if you work in Zurich or London, do contracting, work for a major bank etc then the market is way d
by zxcmx 6y ago
I think European dev market is a lot more complex than that; if you work in Zurich or London, do contracting, work for a major bank etc then the market is way different for you than if you do (say) PHP as an employee of a non-software company in Berlin.
The baseline is decently middle class with a solid safety net but there's a lot more room at the top than you're making out IMHO.
As always, to make cash as a "working" dev you have to get as close as you can to a gigantic money funnel of some sort. The main difference from the U.S. is that there are fewer and different money fountains, especially missing unicorn and VC money. Finance, FAANG outposts and doing specialised things for huge real-economy companies still pay well.
- 2019-nCoV 6y agoZurich and London top out at $100k, any more and we're talking managerial responsibilities. Compared to SF or SEA they are only paying ~25% market rate. The safety net argument has no legs. Australia and Canada both have social benefits that far exceed the majority of EU nations, yet pre-pandemic there was no shortage of $150k+ dev roles.
- vhartman 6y agoZurich does definitely not top out at 100k. Depending on your negotiation skills, you'll start at about 120-140k in the big tech companies, around 120k in data science consulting, 120k for data science in banks, 80-100k at the smaller software companies.
- 2019-nCoV 6y agoThe number of European devs making >$100k is a fraction of a percent. Your numbers tell the story — the pinnacle of the entire European continent is still only paying 25% comparable US market rate, and 60% comparable AU/CA rate. In a city more expensive than SF.
- lonbigtech 6y agoLondon isn’t more expensive than SF. And I have colleagues who make £450k+
- 2019-nCoV 6y ago> London isn’t more expensive than SF. Zurich is. > And I have colleagues who make £450k+ Just as there are American devs pocketing 7 figures annually. Again, the number of European devs making >$100k is a fraction of a percent. You can be making $100k in the US after a 6 month bootcamp or in AU/CA with a couple of years experience.
- lonbigtech 6y ago> Zurich is Not when you factor in the tax differential I doubt that $100k is the 99th percentile for London developers, maybe it is for European in general.
- ryandrake 6y agoIf you've read salary threads, you’d know that everyone on Hacker News makes $1.5 million per year as an entry level software engineer, owns three houses and a Ferrari, and has a supermodel significant other.
- louisswiss 6y agoI've employed developers in Zurich. I promise you, the market for developers does not top out at anywhere near $100k. That's closer to a starting salary (assuming a university degree).
- wolco 6y agoGood luck finding a dev job malig 150k+ in Canadian dollars.
- lonbigtech 6y agoIn Canada? Work at a fintech, FANG, or as a quant.
- jashmatthews 6y agoI had an offer in London as a dev in finance at ~300k GBP total comp and a Series B startup offer over 100k GBP and that was more than 4 years ago. Ended up going with a much smaller seed-stage company in Berlin because I couldn't stomach the finance people and liked Berlin.
- moneywoes 6y agoIs it ok if I ask your YOE and stack?
- jashmatthews 6y ago10 years as a professional dev, CS degree, 10 years before that as a hobbyist. Regular meetup speaker, couple of international conference invites. Mainly worked with high traffic Ruby apps but also done production C and Rust. Side interests in VMs and compilers. These positions exist if you're good, experienced and most of all, not a complete asshole.
- wdb 6y ago£300k, how much would that be in base salary?
- jashmatthews 6y agoLess than half. Tbh I found the whole "guaranteed" bonus thing quite confusing. London finance attracts a crowd that I had very little in common with. To be honest I only interviewed to see what it was like. It wasn't for me.
- wdb 6y agoYet to find the first company in London which really offers a guaranteed bonus ️
- lonbigtech 6y agoLondon doesn’t top out at $100k. Neither does Zurich
- LunaSea 6y agoBut cost of living was much more expensive as well. Especially for housing.