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Don't get the idea that those are free lunches. They are factored as an expected value in your total compensation for sure. It's part of the reason that median

by tjs8rj 6y ago

Don't get the idea that those are free lunches. They are factored as an expected value in your total compensation for sure. It's part of the reason that median incomes in the US are much higher than Europe and everywhere else: less benefits requires higher cash compensation for the same marginal product.

beagle3 6y ago
There are no free lunches. But do note that this is also factored in into AirBNB's/Google/FB/IBMs/Microsoft's compensation as well; They could have paid everyone more and let them save for themselves, but -- like healthcare -- factor it into the "employer's cost" of which "visible" salary+RSU+ISO+bonus is only a part (70-90% depending on many factors). The main difference is that in the US it is optional, so only the well-to-do employers and only at good-enough-time do it -- so the expected costs are weighted by the probability they will do them (say, 30% - I'm sure they have a good idea) -- and they can bail out at the last second if conditions are unfavorable for them to do that. In Europe the systems mostly mandate it. The difference is more striking with respect to pensions paid on retirement - they are "optional" for the employer in the sense that they could (and are) discharged in bankruptcy, meaning that after 40 years of employment, one bankruptcy event (we'll see many after the lockdown) is all it takes to deny those payments. There are no free lunches, indeed - the cost of higher US salaries are unpredictable (and often unfavorable) future cash flows for employees -- and only in some industries are the salaries high enough to actually allow the employees to prepare for that. edit: I've heard someone describe these forcefully-ensured severance and retirement funds as "denying one the ability to steal from their future selves". I think that's an apt description of what it is.
chillacy 6y ago
To put some numbers on that, AirBNB compensation is no joke. They're paying senior engineers 200k+ base and nearly 200k stock. https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Airbnb https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Airbnb I have (regrettably) not found many companies in other countries which pay that well, except maybe Google Zurich, which is hard to get in I hear.
- beagle3 6y ago
  Link 404s for me. Do you know how many of their employees are in that range? And especially how many of those being let go are in that range?
  - chillacy 6y ago
    Whoops, corrected: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Airbnb&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Airbnb&track=Software%20Engi... I don't know specific numbers at AirBNB or their layoff details but you would hit the equivalent L5 at other large bay area companies in about 5 or 6 years.

by tjs8rj 6y ago

beagle3 6y ago

There are no free lunches. But do note that this is also factored in into AirBNB's/Google/FB/IBMs/Microsoft's compensation as well; They could have paid everyone more and let them save for themselves, but -- like healthcare -- factor it into the "employer's cost" of which "visible" salary+RSU+ISO+bonus is only a part (70-90% depending on many factors). The main difference is that in the US it is optional, so only the well-to-do employers and only at good-enough-time do it -- so the expected costs are weighted by the probability they will do them (say, 30% - I'm sure they have a good idea) -- and they can bail out at the last second if conditions are unfavorable for them to do that. In Europe the systems mostly mandate it. The difference is more striking with respect to pensions paid on retirement - they are "optional" for the employer in the sense that they could (and are) discharged in bankruptcy, meaning that after 40 years of employment, one bankruptcy event (we'll see many after the lockdown) is all it takes to deny those payments. There are no free lunches, indeed - the cost of higher US salaries are unpredictable (and often unfavorable) future cash flows for employees -- and only in some industries are the salaries high enough to actually allow the employees to prepare for that. edit: I've heard someone describe these forcefully-ensured severance and retirement funds as "denying one the ability to steal from their future selves". I think that's an apt description of what it is.

chillacy 6y ago

To put some numbers on that, AirBNB compensation is no joke. They're paying senior engineers 200k+ base and nearly 200k stock. https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Airbnb https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Airbnb I have (regrettably) not found many companies in other countries which pay that well, except maybe Google Zurich, which is hard to get in I hear.

beagle3 6y ago
Link 404s for me. Do you know how many of their employees are in that range? And especially how many of those being let go are in that range?
- chillacy 6y ago
  Whoops, corrected: https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Airbnb&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Airbnb&track=Software%20Engi... I don't know specific numbers at AirBNB or their layoff details but you would hit the equivalent L5 at other large bay area companies in about 5 or 6 years.