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That's why when a yet another aspiring startup wants to hire me, I ask for a high sign on bonus as an insurance, monthly vesting cycle, at least 200k in base pa
by schkkd 6y ago
That's why when a yet another aspiring startup wants to hire me, I ask for a high sign on bonus as an insurance, monthly vesting cycle, at least 200k in base pay and high severance upon termination. Never been given that, but I don't regret: looking back, all those "just 1 year till IPO" companies are underwater.
- colordrops 6y agoMost startups are an unintentional scam by unwitting founders.
- rob_austin 6y agovery astutely stated. I think many of us make fundamental attribution mistake - what can be attributed to ignorance/stupidity should not be attributed to malice.
- ithkuil 6y agoAnybody accepted those terms?
- Southland 6y agoHe literally wrote "Never been given that"
- ithkuil 6y agothere are other people here who might have made similar attempts
- schkkd 6y agoNope, no one. And I could negotiate terms with directors, VPs and CEOs (of small firms) over lunches: meaning that they deemed it valuable enough to spend a few hours of their time on me, make a sales pitch and listen. Some admitted that while my terms were reasonable, it would just too expensive for their company to hire me.
- jameshush 6y agoThe "high severance upon termination" is smart, I never thought about asking for that. I'll definitely try that in the future!
- bkanber 6y agoThere's a reason nobody has ever extended him this offer, and I suspect this is it.
- robocat 6y agoThis is called a a golden handshake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handshake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_handshake Unless you are receiving executive level compensation and/or you have a serious public reputation on the line, no reasonable company would consider giving you that. It would give you the perverse incentive to try to get fired and someone negotiating for that would be a strong negative signal - an economic moral hazard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard
- itsmefaz 6y agoI think I'm missing something here.. but how can one negotiate severance pay for termination. I was under the assumption that companies offered severance pay as a means to save face.. and this is not part of the offer negotiation.
- bluntfang 6y agoanything is for sale and on the table, you just have to ask/demand it. Doesn't mean you're going to get it though.
- schkkd 6y agoEverything is negotiable. You can negotiate a private office with a ocean view if you're valuable enough. This won't work for rank and file employees obviously.
- mhluongo 6y ago> I was under the assumption that companies offered severance pay as a means to save face.. and this is not part of the offer negotiation. Quite the opposite- this is how exec compensation works. It seems less common in startup land but I've dealt with it before
- SamReidHughes 6y agoFor some high-level positions, it gets negotiated up-front. You're leaving some other company, taking a risk, and there's a good chance you might not be right for the new company. But if you're less high-level but rare and desirable, well, some situations, like moving cross-country, might make it a bit appropriate.
- jameslevy 6y agoMonthly vesting without a year one cliff is not really done, AFAIK. I also don't think that there is a lot of wiggle room for negotiated severance terms. But sign on bonuses and 200k base pay could certainly be on the table.
- mav3rick 6y agoIt happens at both F & G in FAANG.
- monktastic1 6y agoMonthly vesting in the first year?
- Domenic_S 6y agoCan confirm that at G.
- chapplap 6y agoMonthly at Google, quarterly at Facebook.
- Zhenya 6y agoThe vest frequency depends on the size of the grant. Some grants (small) once a year Bigger - quarterly Large - monthly
- freepor 6y agoThe only point of the one year cliff is to pay someone less, or keep a startup’s cap table clean. For a public company there would be no point.
- eru 6y agoThe other point is to bind people to the company. It's very similar to a sign-on bonus you can claw back in the first year or two.
- qppo 6y agoAre you an engineer or a professional athlete?
- whymauri 6y agoI think Netflix has actually likened its engineers to a "pro sports team."
- blackrock 6y agoWhat’s your batting average?
- jfk13 6y ago"Never been given that". Zero, apparently.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- organicfigs 6y agoSame, those clowns are Sky Rocket Ventures wouldn't stop calling me. I told them to match 65% of my then-salary, they realized they weren't talking with a broke 20 year old kid and stopped calling me.
- jacquesm 6y agoIf you've never been given that then this is content free.
- eru 6y agoMostly, but not completely content free. Lots of people are afraid when negotiating, and the original comment shows that even making big demands up front is not catastrophic. You can still cave in later.