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really hope nothing about this can be tied back to you at AWS. If you want to help, build a one page site giving the FC people all the information they need to

really hope nothing about this can be tied back to you at AWS. If you want to help, build a one page site giving the FC people all the information they need to get the ball rolling at their levels. I think at your level, the only thing that will catch attention is a principled stand i.e. resigning and in your exit interviews make it clear why you are resigning. Tim was the start, if tons of colleagues follow him out the door, it will be noticed, which means you need to find like minded people and all resign together.

samatman 6y ago
> find like minded people This is also known as organizing. Organizing and then mass resigning has got to be the least efficient use of the potential organizing represents. Organize and join a union that's already working with FC. This gives you a chance to hear, directly, what outcomes they desire, and advocate for it. Software workers are notoriously reluctant to organize. They figure "hey, I'm well paid already, what is organizing going to get me?" Let this situation serve as an answer to that question. Good luck.
- Kalium 6y ago
  Speaking solely and exclusively for myself, I've been skeptical of every organization attempt I've encountered in software because they all seem misguided. Too many talk about gaining political influence to push (insert unrelated policy goal here). A deeply disturbing number seek to create some kind of guild that can enforce (insert arbitrary personal moral code here) on all its members and render unemployable anyone who crosses it. I do not find those attractive prospects. I've yet to personally encounter a clear-eyed would-be SWE-union-organizer who is interested in sticking to nuts and bolts. "What's in it for me?" isn't a selfish question to be brushed off, it's the only question that matters.
  - samatman 6y ago
    That might be true... for you. For Tim Bray, and our anonymous AWS poster, "What's in it for us?" is, clearly, also a salient question. It's true that ultimately "What's in it for me" is the only question which really moves the needle. Here, the answer is "an opportunity to raise issues with management and not get brushed off". Today the issue is the treatment of FC workers. There's no way that this is the last issue that will ever arise.
    - Kalium 6y ago
      I've found that appeals to solidarity, by themselves, rarely move the needle for enough individuals to make a large-scale difference. Your experience may differ. Union-to-union solidarity might perhaps be a different question - organizations reason differently than individuals. Of course, this requires that both organizations already exist. So, again, what's in it for me? The chance to "raise issues" doesn't sound like something I would want to stick my neck out for. The chance to have someone lecture me about the importance of solidarity doesn't sound appealing... for me.
  - indymike 6y ago
    In software, every organization attempt I've seen seems to be about "fair pay" meaning same pay for same job, arbitrary promotion/demotions, working extra hours with no compensation and job security (i.e. protecting people based on seniority from layoffs). Most of the time, the first part of the deal, moving from salary to an hourly wage, is a showstopper.

samatman 6y ago

> find like minded people This is also known as organizing. Organizing and then mass resigning has got to be the least efficient use of the potential organizing represents. Organize and join a union that's already working with FC. This gives you a chance to hear, directly, what outcomes they desire, and advocate for it. Software workers are notoriously reluctant to organize. They figure "hey, I'm well paid already, what is organizing going to get me?" Let this situation serve as an answer to that question. Good luck.

Kalium 6y ago
Speaking solely and exclusively for myself, I've been skeptical of every organization attempt I've encountered in software because they all seem misguided. Too many talk about gaining political influence to push (insert unrelated policy goal here). A deeply disturbing number seek to create some kind of guild that can enforce (insert arbitrary personal moral code here) on all its members and render unemployable anyone who crosses it. I do not find those attractive prospects. I've yet to personally encounter a clear-eyed would-be SWE-union-organizer who is interested in sticking to nuts and bolts. "What's in it for me?" isn't a selfish question to be brushed off, it's the only question that matters.
- samatman 6y ago
  That might be true... for you. For Tim Bray, and our anonymous AWS poster, "What's in it for us?" is, clearly, also a salient question. It's true that ultimately "What's in it for me" is the only question which really moves the needle. Here, the answer is "an opportunity to raise issues with management and not get brushed off". Today the issue is the treatment of FC workers. There's no way that this is the last issue that will ever arise.
  - Kalium 6y ago
    I've found that appeals to solidarity, by themselves, rarely move the needle for enough individuals to make a large-scale difference. Your experience may differ. Union-to-union solidarity might perhaps be a different question - organizations reason differently than individuals. Of course, this requires that both organizations already exist. So, again, what's in it for me? The chance to "raise issues" doesn't sound like something I would want to stick my neck out for. The chance to have someone lecture me about the importance of solidarity doesn't sound appealing... for me.
- indymike 6y ago
  In software, every organization attempt I've seen seems to be about "fair pay" meaning same pay for same job, arbitrary promotion/demotions, working extra hours with no compensation and job security (i.e. protecting people based on seniority from layoffs). Most of the time, the first part of the deal, moving from salary to an hourly wage, is a showstopper.