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You say “nobody cares,” but I and many people I know and work with do care! I understand your point of view but maybe you should try to understand where others

You say “nobody cares,” but I and many people I know and work with do care! I understand your point of view but maybe you should try to understand where others are coming from.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
> I understand your point of view but maybe you should try to understand where others are coming from. Can you make an argument for it? It kind of feels like a movie critic trying to explain why the Transformers are bad, even though they still rake in billions. If the Transformers changed to make the critic happy, it at best would have no impact on the billions, in all likelihood it would cause a regression, and so the critic needs an incredibly compelling argument.
- henriquez 6y ago
  I wrote a (lengthy) post on this: https://www.obsessivefacts.com/blog/2020-04-04-the-javascript-black-hole.html https://www.obsessivefacts.com/blog/2020-04-04-the-javascrip... In the language of your analogy it would be "Transformers are unethical!" Our collective obsession with making billions is ruining entertainment media / the Internet / everything unfettered capitalism touches ;)
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    But you are entering the realm of philosophy not reality. Fact is, applications and websites mostly exist for commerce.
- seph-reed 6y ago
  > the critic needs an incredibly compelling argument Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. It blows my mind that people still argue there is causality between quality and popularity. Certainly, there's correlation sometimes, but something does not need to be quality to be popular, nor is quality always popular. I mean, Van Gogh wasn't recognized until death. And you saw the 2016 US elections right?
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    > Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. In the case of transformers it's also a measure of money made, which, being incredibly pragmatic here, is also the point of most website people are paid to work on. I'm not trying to say that all other measures don't have value or anything like that, I'm just trying to be practical in terms of the needs and goals of most modern websites. I'd much prefer every website was made "right", but "right" is nebulous and expensive.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. It blows my mind that people still argue there is causality between quality and popularity. Yes, but "quality" is a fuzzy and personal metric in many domains... Or conversely, "quality" can be defined as "popular with the critic type" in these domains - so it's still just a kind of popularity metric...
    - seph-reed 6y ago
      Eh. I think you're intentionally making things fuzzy. If you have a bunch of Bowerbird watching the movie, it better have the color blue to be popular with them. We can reduce their "shit-test" list to something simple which obviously overlaps minimally with what is a reasonable definition for quality. I'll yield that the Transformer movies do have phenomenal CGI, and that people who like them are in fact discerning of the quality within that. But this is just one dimension of "quality," and I highly doubt the critic is unaware of it. The truth is that modern popularity is based off a narrow subset of shit-tests which are easily duped (Trump passed). Meanwhile there are many critics who aim to have a much broader and accurate shit-testing system. Some of them get up their own ass about trying to be above common shit-tests, and in the process they debase critics as a whole. All shit-tests matter. But the point is that most people are really, really easily hackable and calling something that gets through their defenses a "quality hack" is lame. It's like hacking peoples wordpress sites from 2000.
      - 6y ago
- superkuh 6y ago
  What if the transformers movie was also spying to make money and was the primary cause of remote exploits, crashes, and fraud? Because javascript is.

You say “nobody cares,” but I and many people I know and work with do care! I understand your point of view but maybe you should try to understand where others are coming from.

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

> I understand your point of view but maybe you should try to understand where others are coming from. Can you make an argument for it? It kind of feels like a movie critic trying to explain why the Transformers are bad, even though they still rake in billions. If the Transformers changed to make the critic happy, it at best would have no impact on the billions, in all likelihood it would cause a regression, and so the critic needs an incredibly compelling argument.

henriquez 6y ago
I wrote a (lengthy) post on this: https://www.obsessivefacts.com/blog/2020-04-04-the-javascript-black-hole.html https://www.obsessivefacts.com/blog/2020-04-04-the-javascrip... In the language of your analogy it would be "Transformers are unethical!" Our collective obsession with making billions is ruining entertainment media / the Internet / everything unfettered capitalism touches ;)
- LunaSea 6y ago
  But you are entering the realm of philosophy not reality. Fact is, applications and websites mostly exist for commerce.
seph-reed 6y ago
> the critic needs an incredibly compelling argument Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. It blows my mind that people still argue there is causality between quality and popularity. Certainly, there's correlation sometimes, but something does not need to be quality to be popular, nor is quality always popular. I mean, Van Gogh wasn't recognized until death. And you saw the 2016 US elections right?
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  > Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. In the case of transformers it's also a measure of money made, which, being incredibly pragmatic here, is also the point of most website people are paid to work on. I'm not trying to say that all other measures don't have value or anything like that, I'm just trying to be practical in terms of the needs and goals of most modern websites. I'd much prefer every website was made "right", but "right" is nebulous and expensive.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >Popularity is a B.S. metric of correctness, quality, or pretty much anything other than zeitgeist. It blows my mind that people still argue there is causality between quality and popularity. Yes, but "quality" is a fuzzy and personal metric in many domains... Or conversely, "quality" can be defined as "popular with the critic type" in these domains - so it's still just a kind of popularity metric...
  - seph-reed 6y ago
    Eh. I think you're intentionally making things fuzzy. If you have a bunch of Bowerbird watching the movie, it better have the color blue to be popular with them. We can reduce their "shit-test" list to something simple which obviously overlaps minimally with what is a reasonable definition for quality. I'll yield that the Transformer movies do have phenomenal CGI, and that people who like them are in fact discerning of the quality within that. But this is just one dimension of "quality," and I highly doubt the critic is unaware of it. The truth is that modern popularity is based off a narrow subset of shit-tests which are easily duped (Trump passed). Meanwhile there are many critics who aim to have a much broader and accurate shit-testing system. Some of them get up their own ass about trying to be above common shit-tests, and in the process they debase critics as a whole. All shit-tests matter. But the point is that most people are really, really easily hackable and calling something that gets through their defenses a "quality hack" is lame. It's like hacking peoples wordpress sites from 2000.
    - 6y ago
superkuh 6y ago
What if the transformers movie was also spying to make money and was the primary cause of remote exploits, crashes, and fraud? Because javascript is.