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I recently tried switching from an MBP to an X1 Carbon, in a yet another attempt to switch to Linux as my daily driver. I ended up being thwarted, to my surpris

I recently tried switching from an MBP to an X1 Carbon, in a yet another attempt to switch to Linux as my daily driver. I ended up being thwarted, to my surprise, by the touchpad support. The big problem I encountered was poor palm detection: I learned through this process that I have a tendency to use the touchpad with my right hand, while my left hand is still in typing position. This means that the edge of my left palm rests along the upper-left corner of the touchpad. This would result in the driver sometimes detecting two touchpoints instead of one, and I would end up scrolling when I meant to move the pointer. The result of this was pretty amazing to me: after a few hours of use I found that my wrists, shoulders, and neck hurt because I was subconsciously trying to adjust my hands to avoid this. After a couple of days trying different drivers and tweaking config files, I ended up conceding that it just wasn't there yet. It's too bad: I have lots of imposter syndrome about understanding my OS and using Linux seems like a great cure. But after literally decades of trying, what I've noticed is that hardware (or at least, my acclimating to new hardware) always advances enough past Linux's capabilities that the switch is difficult. In the past, it was about getting sound cards or WiFi working, and nowadays it's about things like touchpads and high-resolution displays.

lliamander 6y ago
I find that, with my Thinkpads that I don't use the touchpad at all. I find the trackpoint a much more convenient pointing device as it keeps my hands a home row.
- jordanbeiber 6y ago
  And they never run out of space!
  - throwaway3neu94 6y ago
    But when you push it in one direction too long, then let it go neutral, it'll have a bias into the other direction and move there by itself for a few seconds.
    - darkerside 6y ago
      And then reset itself and stop, which I always found oddly satisfying
- jakear 6y ago
  Touchpad scrolling is nice. Yes keyboard shortcuts exist for scroll, but I for whatever reason vastly prefer touch-based.
  - lliamander 6y ago
    On Thinkpads, there's also the thumb buttons below the space bar that act as mouse buttons. The middle one allows you to scroll with the trackpoint. It's very convenient.
- Ballas 6y ago
  Trackpoints are amazing! I just wish they were more popular. I have had to resort to building custom keyboards with trackpoints to overcome the limited availability.
Enginerrrd 6y ago
This is actually usually pretty configurable. You have to use the actual config file though and not the GUI to get the really tunable numeric settings of palm-size and whatnot. Also, understand that there's libinput or touchpad synaptics and you can use the other one if one isn't working for you. I have had better luck with libinput myself but it probably depends on the hardware.
- mchristen 6y ago
  That is such a horrible user experience though, it's no different than having to hack apart your X11 config file to get the proper modeline support for your monitor, or to map your keyboard so your Super key works. Thankfully we've moved past those problems for now, until you want to use multiple screens or use a touchpad. Desktop Linux still has a long way to go if there is ever going to be any appreciable market share.
  - falcrist 6y ago
    Every time I try to use Linux, I come to the conclusion that the user experience makes it not worth the effort it would take to be a daily driver. I always feel like I just don't have the knowledge to get things done in a reasonably efficient manner... And the OS needs more polish. There's always some annoying little problems that take a mountain of effort to properly diagnose and solve. Things like dual monitor support not working properly when the monitors have different resolutions, or YouTube dropping out of fullscreen when you focus on a different window. To be fair, these kinds of issues are probably no problem for someone with lots of experience... But I'm not one of those. I also find that the gap between windows and Linux has narrowed dramatically over the last 10 years. Whenever I try a fresh install (every couple years), I'm surprised at how much better it feels.
    - lonelappde 6y ago
      Linux is great on the server. It will never be good on the human interface because hardware and UX trends evolve and fragment faster the tiny user community can afford to support.
GordonS 6y ago
Hmm, I don't recall ever having a problem with palms on any touchpad, ever. On desktop I do usually use Windows or MacOS (mostly terminal on Linux), but I do occasionally use Linux (Ubuntu) on an aging HP Zbook, and never had an issue. I used to use Ubuntu desktop a lot quite a few years back, and don't recall any issues even then.
freedomben 6y ago
This is so surprising to me. I use Fedora on Thinkpad T580 (Fedora keeps the kernel very fresh (and has best/latest hardware fixes in it)) but I can't get the palm detection to fail for me even if I try. It just works with the out-of-the-box settings for me.
new_realist 6y ago
Linux will always lag, never lead, at problems where there are no paid developers, like the non-ChromeOS, non-Android user experience.
darekkay 6y ago
I've switched to a MBP 2015 as my work laptop about 1 year ago, and it's the only device I have palm issues with. I've never, ever had any issues with other laptops (my previous work laptop was a T460). I guess the bigger-than-usual touchpad size on the MBP is the main issue.

lliamander 6y ago

I find that, with my Thinkpads that I don't use the touchpad at all. I find the trackpoint a much more convenient pointing device as it keeps my hands a home row.

jordanbeiber 6y ago
And they never run out of space!
- throwaway3neu94 6y ago
  But when you push it in one direction too long, then let it go neutral, it'll have a bias into the other direction and move there by itself for a few seconds.
  - darkerside 6y ago
    And then reset itself and stop, which I always found oddly satisfying
jakear 6y ago
Touchpad scrolling is nice. Yes keyboard shortcuts exist for scroll, but I for whatever reason vastly prefer touch-based.
- lliamander 6y ago
  On Thinkpads, there's also the thumb buttons below the space bar that act as mouse buttons. The middle one allows you to scroll with the trackpoint. It's very convenient.
Ballas 6y ago
Trackpoints are amazing! I just wish they were more popular. I have had to resort to building custom keyboards with trackpoints to overcome the limited availability.

Enginerrrd 6y ago

This is actually usually pretty configurable. You have to use the actual config file though and not the GUI to get the really tunable numeric settings of palm-size and whatnot. Also, understand that there's libinput or touchpad synaptics and you can use the other one if one isn't working for you. I have had better luck with libinput myself but it probably depends on the hardware.

mchristen 6y ago
That is such a horrible user experience though, it's no different than having to hack apart your X11 config file to get the proper modeline support for your monitor, or to map your keyboard so your Super key works. Thankfully we've moved past those problems for now, until you want to use multiple screens or use a touchpad. Desktop Linux still has a long way to go if there is ever going to be any appreciable market share.
- falcrist 6y ago
  Every time I try to use Linux, I come to the conclusion that the user experience makes it not worth the effort it would take to be a daily driver. I always feel like I just don't have the knowledge to get things done in a reasonably efficient manner... And the OS needs more polish. There's always some annoying little problems that take a mountain of effort to properly diagnose and solve. Things like dual monitor support not working properly when the monitors have different resolutions, or YouTube dropping out of fullscreen when you focus on a different window. To be fair, these kinds of issues are probably no problem for someone with lots of experience... But I'm not one of those. I also find that the gap between windows and Linux has narrowed dramatically over the last 10 years. Whenever I try a fresh install (every couple years), I'm surprised at how much better it feels.
  - lonelappde 6y ago
    Linux is great on the server. It will never be good on the human interface because hardware and UX trends evolve and fragment faster the tiny user community can afford to support.

GordonS 6y ago

Hmm, I don't recall ever having a problem with palms on any touchpad, ever. On desktop I do usually use Windows or MacOS (mostly terminal on Linux), but I do occasionally use Linux (Ubuntu) on an aging HP Zbook, and never had an issue. I used to use Ubuntu desktop a lot quite a few years back, and don't recall any issues even then.

freedomben 6y ago

This is so surprising to me. I use Fedora on Thinkpad T580 (Fedora keeps the kernel very fresh (and has best/latest hardware fixes in it)) but I can't get the palm detection to fail for me even if I try. It just works with the out-of-the-box settings for me.

new_realist 6y ago

Linux will always lag, never lead, at problems where there are no paid developers, like the non-ChromeOS, non-Android user experience.

darekkay 6y ago

I've switched to a MBP 2015 as my work laptop about 1 year ago, and it's the only device I have palm issues with. I've never, ever had any issues with other laptops (my previous work laptop was a T460). I guess the bigger-than-usual touchpad size on the MBP is the main issue.