5 ms·

Spy Dust (Nitrophenyl Pentadienal)

61 points by boredgamer2 6y ago

oh_sigh 6y ago
How exactly would it be used? Presumably you're using it to mark someone you don't actually know, but then you need to actually go looking for the trail, but how do you do that if you don't know who the spy is?
- empath75 6y ago
  They tagged people they knew.
- praptak 6y ago
  Spray on a known or suspected spy, swab places of their suspected contacts.
- PoachedSausage 6y ago
  Presumably you would sprinkle it on the fake secret documents that you left around for the suspected mole to finger, then you have proof who the mole is. I guess these days they just put a dash of Polonium-210 in your tea and follow you with a Gieger counter, sends a much stronger message.
- boredgamer2 6y ago
  Get it on foreign embassy employees, and then if it shows up on one of your staff, you'll know they talked to that foreign embassy.
  - paypalcust83 6y ago
    People don't necessarily touch, especially anymore and unlikely any longer. MEMS camera "dust" with a/v recording, storage, and GNSS would be nice.
- personjerry 6y ago
  The Wikipedia article gave me the impression that the "read" method is still a Russian secret.
- sandworm101 6y ago
  1) Say you have a locked door to which you want the key. You put the dust on the doorknob. Then you check the cars in the parking lot for traces. Now you know which people have gone through the locked door and presumably have keys. Checking their backgrounds also gives you a good idea what is happening behind that door. 2) Before shredders got good. You put the luminol dust on the steering wheel of an inteligence officer's car. Then you steel the shredded paper from the base. The luminol then identifies which shreds of paper come from documents handled by the inteligence officer. 3) You dope the inteligence officer's car again. Then you look at the door punchcode panel to see which buttons he pressed. Now you are 90% of the way to knowing the code.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - htfu 6y ago
    One of the sources also mentions tracking dogs, so it seems to have been quite multi-purpose!
    - mattkrause 6y ago
      [6] says that "Spy Dust" was a catch-all term for compounds used this way, rather than just NPPD.
    - sandworm101 6y ago
      Reminds me of sheep. Ever notice sheep with a colored mark on their back? They hang a bag of colored chalk under the ram. This then leaves a colored mark on the back of the sheep he has serviced.
      - pacaro 6y ago
        Also known as raddle not every Ram or Tup will tolerate a harness, so sometimes powdered raddle is mixed with vegetable oil and smeared over his chest. It gives the farmer quite a lot of information, by changing the color every 17 days (a ewe's cycle), they can detect a infertile tup, predict lambing dates, etc.
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  There's a book called "Spy Dust" about tools of the trade, which the wikipedia article links to and which has this to say on p. 121 (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spy_Dust/U0eEd6Jc3koC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA121 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spy_Dust/U0eEd6Jc3koC?h...): > KGB defector Yurchenko, who defected to the U.S. that same year, had confirmed that the KGB not only continued to employ spy dust, but was also experimenting with other powerful tracking substances and techniques under a top-secret umbrella program called METKA. We understood that spy dust could be used to track the Soviets' own citizens as well; it could be very useful in picking an individual out of a crowd, even at night, or in bad weather. A special light was used to illuminate and spot the tiny chemical particles, which, when used in small amounts, could be nearly invisible to the naked eye. Typically the technical readout would be performed at a chokepoint that the KGB controlled. The entrance to the U.S. Embassy compound, manned by the Soviet Militia, or a bridge over a well-traveled corridor were the sort of locations where a light and optics unit could be mounted. The wikipedia article also mentions luminol (a different chemical), so it is hard to be sure whether references to UV refer to luminol instead. I'm not sure if both chemicals glow under UV. Nevertheless, wikipedia also links to a NY Times article from 1986 (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/15/world/us-says-spy-dust-used-by-the-russians-is-no-health-hazard.html https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/15/world/us-says-spy-dust-us...) which says, "The ''spy dust'' reportedly glowed under ultraviolet light." So unless the NY Times got them mixed up, it sounds like "regular" (non-luminol) spy dust glows too. Of course, the wikipedia article also mentions a method that involves collecting a chemical sample, so it's possible they might have also used it to detect residue to check whether a spy touched some object.
xfitm3 6y ago
Glo Germ powder is a consumer equivalent of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FE1RQA2 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FE1RQA2
jdietrich 6y ago
A modern equivalent is SmartWater, a clear fluid that a) fluoresces under UV b) is extremely difficult to wash off and c) contains a unique code for forensic identification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater
- totalZero 6y ago
  I don't see how such a product should verify ownership, and I agree with the objection that a person can buy SmartWater and apply it to valuable items owned by other people. It is the high-tech equivalent of putting your thumb in the biggest piece of pizza when your brother opens the box, to claim it as your own.

61 points by boredgamer2 6y ago

How exactly would it be used? Presumably you're using it to mark someone you don't actually know, but then you need to actually go looking for the trail, but how do you do that if you don't know who the spy is?

empath75 6y ago
They tagged people they knew.
praptak 6y ago
Spray on a known or suspected spy, swab places of their suspected contacts.
PoachedSausage 6y ago
Presumably you would sprinkle it on the fake secret documents that you left around for the suspected mole to finger, then you have proof who the mole is. I guess these days they just put a dash of Polonium-210 in your tea and follow you with a Gieger counter, sends a much stronger message.
boredgamer2 6y ago
Get it on foreign embassy employees, and then if it shows up on one of your staff, you'll know they talked to that foreign embassy.
- paypalcust83 6y ago
  People don't necessarily touch, especially anymore and unlikely any longer. MEMS camera "dust" with a/v recording, storage, and GNSS would be nice.
personjerry 6y ago
The Wikipedia article gave me the impression that the "read" method is still a Russian secret.
sandworm101 6y ago
1) Say you have a locked door to which you want the key. You put the dust on the doorknob. Then you check the cars in the parking lot for traces. Now you know which people have gone through the locked door and presumably have keys. Checking their backgrounds also gives you a good idea what is happening behind that door. 2) Before shredders got good. You put the luminol dust on the steering wheel of an inteligence officer's car. Then you steel the shredded paper from the base. The luminol then identifies which shreds of paper come from documents handled by the inteligence officer. 3) You dope the inteligence officer's car again. Then you look at the door punchcode panel to see which buttons he pressed. Now you are 90% of the way to knowing the code.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- htfu 6y ago
  One of the sources also mentions tracking dogs, so it seems to have been quite multi-purpose!
  - mattkrause 6y ago
    [6] says that "Spy Dust" was a catch-all term for compounds used this way, rather than just NPPD.
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    Reminds me of sheep. Ever notice sheep with a colored mark on their back? They hang a bag of colored chalk under the ram. This then leaves a colored mark on the back of the sheep he has serviced.
    - pacaro 6y ago
      Also known as raddle not every Ram or Tup will tolerate a harness, so sometimes powdered raddle is mixed with vegetable oil and smeared over his chest. It gives the farmer quite a lot of information, by changing the color every 17 days (a ewe's cycle), they can detect a infertile tup, predict lambing dates, etc.
adrianmonk 6y ago
There's a book called "Spy Dust" about tools of the trade, which the wikipedia article links to and which has this to say on p. 121 (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spy_Dust/U0eEd6Jc3koC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA121 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spy_Dust/U0eEd6Jc3koC?h...): > KGB defector Yurchenko, who defected to the U.S. that same year, had confirmed that the KGB not only continued to employ spy dust, but was also experimenting with other powerful tracking substances and techniques under a top-secret umbrella program called METKA. We understood that spy dust could be used to track the Soviets' own citizens as well; it could be very useful in picking an individual out of a crowd, even at night, or in bad weather. A special light was used to illuminate and spot the tiny chemical particles, which, when used in small amounts, could be nearly invisible to the naked eye. Typically the technical readout would be performed at a chokepoint that the KGB controlled. The entrance to the U.S. Embassy compound, manned by the Soviet Militia, or a bridge over a well-traveled corridor were the sort of locations where a light and optics unit could be mounted. The wikipedia article also mentions luminol (a different chemical), so it is hard to be sure whether references to UV refer to luminol instead. I'm not sure if both chemicals glow under UV. Nevertheless, wikipedia also links to a NY Times article from 1986 (https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/15/world/us-says-spy-dust-used-by-the-russians-is-no-health-hazard.html https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/15/world/us-says-spy-dust-us...) which says, "The ''spy dust'' reportedly glowed under ultraviolet light." So unless the NY Times got them mixed up, it sounds like "regular" (non-luminol) spy dust glows too. Of course, the wikipedia article also mentions a method that involves collecting a chemical sample, so it's possible they might have also used it to detect residue to check whether a spy touched some object.

xfitm3 6y ago

Glo Germ powder is a consumer equivalent of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FE1RQA2 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FE1RQA2

jdietrich 6y ago

A modern equivalent is SmartWater, a clear fluid that a) fluoresces under UV b) is extremely difficult to wash off and c) contains a unique code for forensic identification. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater

totalZero 6y ago
I don't see how such a product should verify ownership, and I agree with the objection that a person can buy SmartWater and apply it to valuable items owned by other people. It is the high-tech equivalent of putting your thumb in the biggest piece of pizza when your brother opens the box, to claim it as your own.