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Not all devs have the privilege to make that moral choice. Especially devs who are in the US on a visa. Unlike Canada / Australia where folks can get a permane

by mataug 6y ago

Not all devs have the privilege to make that moral choice. Especially devs who are in the US on a visa. Unlike Canada / Australia where folks can get a permanent residency relatively quickly based on education + job offer. The US has a long PR process which is tied to a visa, the visa in-turn is tied to an employer, instead of an industry(such as Tech / Software). So every job switch is rolling the dice and wading through no-mans land. Sure devs can move back to their home country, but that could mean uprooting their lives or even be potentially life-threathening. Moving jobs can be painful, up-rooting lives to move back is a much more terrifying prospect.

ddevault 6y ago
Author here. I decline to extend my comments to H1B workers, I agree that they don't enjoy the same level of mobility as programmers who are US citizens. This is a problem in and of itself, but I don't hold H1B's accountable for their employer's deeds due to these extenuating circumstances. The point of my article is that you should be held accountable for things which are within your control, and for US citizens working as programmers, the choice of where to work is very much within their control.
- mataug 6y ago
  Appreciate your response here, Thank you !
- matchbok 6y ago
  This is a very myopic view. Very few people have the luxury of quitting a job because they don't agree with 100% of things their company is doing. It's an extremely privileged view to have. Especially given that exactly 0 companies, anywhere, will do everything you agree with.
  - ddevault 6y ago
    I think I have justified my argument that we do have the luxury of quitting in TFA, within the first two paragraphs.
    - matchbok 6y ago
      Again, maybe you do. You are not everyone. Stop assuming things to make your argument stronger. You know exactly nothing about 99.9999% of the engineers at these companies and their lives and their needs. You also do not know what they care about and if their morality lines up with yours (which you have decided to be the global "right" morality, for some reason)
      - Loughla 6y ago
        You seem to be purposefully obtuse in your thinking. The author's argument, as they have come here to even further clarify, although it's very clear in the article, is that MOST tech workers, specifically developers/coders/makers whatever, absolutely have the privilege of choice. That's one of the side effects of a strong hiring field in technology. You can, in fact, in most cases, put your butt in a seat that aligns with your values. To act like that isn't the reality for most individuals involved in the tech industry, especially in SV, is disingenuous at best. Source/reasoning for my views: I am not in a position that I can move jobs based on values. Luckily, 75% of my values align with my institution.
        matchbok 6y ago
        No, they don't. That's just not true. I'm in that group and I cannot simply get up and leave if my company decides to do something like that. I have responsibilities to my family and future. Same with everyone one of my friends in the field. A high salary today is meaningless if you are out of a job tomorrow. That line of thinking is very disingenuous. Every worker probably has at least a few disagreements, morally speaking, with their leadership. That's how the world works. Obtuse? Nice try.

by mataug 6y ago

ddevault 6y ago

Author here. I decline to extend my comments to H1B workers, I agree that they don't enjoy the same level of mobility as programmers who are US citizens. This is a problem in and of itself, but I don't hold H1B's accountable for their employer's deeds due to these extenuating circumstances. The point of my article is that you should be held accountable for things which are within your control, and for US citizens working as programmers, the choice of where to work is very much within their control.

mataug 6y ago
Appreciate your response here, Thank you !
matchbok 6y ago
This is a very myopic view. Very few people have the luxury of quitting a job because they don't agree with 100% of things their company is doing. It's an extremely privileged view to have. Especially given that exactly 0 companies, anywhere, will do everything you agree with.
- ddevault 6y ago
  I think I have justified my argument that we do have the luxury of quitting in TFA, within the first two paragraphs.
  - matchbok 6y ago
    Again, maybe you do. You are not everyone. Stop assuming things to make your argument stronger. You know exactly nothing about 99.9999% of the engineers at these companies and their lives and their needs. You also do not know what they care about and if their morality lines up with yours (which you have decided to be the global "right" morality, for some reason)
    - Loughla 6y ago
      You seem to be purposefully obtuse in your thinking. The author's argument, as they have come here to even further clarify, although it's very clear in the article, is that MOST tech workers, specifically developers/coders/makers whatever, absolutely have the privilege of choice. That's one of the side effects of a strong hiring field in technology. You can, in fact, in most cases, put your butt in a seat that aligns with your values. To act like that isn't the reality for most individuals involved in the tech industry, especially in SV, is disingenuous at best. Source/reasoning for my views: I am not in a position that I can move jobs based on values. Luckily, 75% of my values align with my institution.
      - matchbok 6y ago
        No, they don't. That's just not true. I'm in that group and I cannot simply get up and leave if my company decides to do something like that. I have responsibilities to my family and future. Same with everyone one of my friends in the field. A high salary today is meaningless if you are out of a job tomorrow. That line of thinking is very disingenuous. Every worker probably has at least a few disagreements, morally speaking, with their leadership. That's how the world works. Obtuse? Nice try.