5 ms·

I look to cities like London with awe and respect - that they have managed to keep so much old trees around. I get so frustrated at the local city and country l

I look to cities like London with awe and respect - that they have managed to keep so much old trees around. I get so frustrated at the local city and country level. It takes minutes to fell down a tree that took centuries to grow. That there are any old trees around is a sign of persistently maintained high values.

dreen 7y ago
Check out the Noel Park Friendship Tree [1]. Seems like the road has been built around it since at least 1894 [2] (though maybe another tree was there before). [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5969952,-0.1033777,3a,15y,198.86h,67.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssvHxWpyBFjqefJqFz46P4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5969952,-0.1033777,3a,15y,... [2] https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/appendix_1_noel_park_caamp_finalised_3.compressed_0.pdf https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/append...
leonroy 7y ago
One of the things that still chills is me is how Palo Alto city council decided to fell an entire street of old trees to make it look tidy: http://www.paulgraham.com/californiaavenueoaks.html http://www.paulgraham.com/californiaavenueoaks.html That said if you ever fly over the UK you'll notice it's a beautiful quilted patchwork of green fields and hedgerows. The UK used to be covered in old woodland forests. Much of it was felled over the centuries, with most of it being cut down during the medieval period. Not a lot of ancient woodland is left here nor indeed in the US. That said California still has quite a bit. Muir Woods are on my bucket list of places to visit. A full list of old forests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests
- Gravityloss 7y ago
  Sad. These investigations never go anywhere. In my city they have relentlessly pursued some people who graffiti painted some trains decades ago with massive retribution lawsuits. Yet any city official or workman can fell any number of trees with no permission whatsoever and the whole chain of command just shrugs. A paint factory (accidentally) poured a huge amount of poison to a river. All the fish died. Nothing again really happened, all the law cases were dismissed. (The company did voluntarily repent and support later conservation efforts.)
- inamberclad 7y ago
  Decades later and that street still looks bleak.
- eru 7y ago
  Well, at least they replaced the trees instead of just removing them.
- Mvandenbergh 7y ago
  It's actually an open scientific question how much of Europe was covered by forest vs meadows. One of the main things that argues for rather more meadows is that we have trees that grow quite poorly / not at all in forests but very well by themselves.
- knolax 7y ago
  Ironic given that the city was named after a tree.
renewiltord 7y ago
They realized a bit late. Europe razed her forests. Maybe they can track their trees because they only have so many. To compare: CA is about twice as big as the UK and Californians own more forests as individuals than the UK has in total. Four times as much area in California is forest as in the UK in total. They owe the rest of the Earth a terrible debt.
- avianlyric 7y ago
  Before we go too far with the UK bashing. It’s worth noting that the UK’s population is ~66 million. California is ~44 million. California population density is ~251 people/sq mile. UK population density is ~727 people/sq mile. So the UK has almost 3x the population density, the UK simply doesn’t have oodles of unused space like the US. So a significantly reduced number of trees and forests isn’t much of a surprise.
  - renewiltord 7y ago
    Indeed, but more people isn't good for its own sake. Lest we forget, California produces almost as much in its economy as the UK does with 2/3rds the people. We are more forested, we are more people-efficient, we are just as power-efficient, our energy comes form just as good sources. They need to step up. Our conditions here will not last forever and it is time for them to reforest, and pay the debt they owe the Earth.
    - avianlyric 7y ago
      If feel like you’re arrogantly ignoring the fact that California is part of the much larger US economy, and all the benefits that entails. And that despite the so called “good power sources” California still emits almost double the Co2 per capita than the UK (CA ~10 ton / capita; ~6 ton / capita; for 2017). You’re also forgetting that most of the UKs deforestation periods occurred during World Wars I & II, so the US also benefited significantly from this deforestation. The UK has also done a significant amount of _re_forestation. Increasing forest coverage from a low of 9% to 38% today[1]. So before you march around telling people to “step up” perhaps consider doing a little research, and examine your own impacts on the world. Don’t just belittle others. [1]: https://www.ies-uk.org.uk/deforestation.php https://www.ies-uk.org.uk/deforestation.php
globular-toast 7y ago
Unfortunately I've noticed that a lot of development in the UK now starts with razing the area to the ground rather than working with the existing plant life. Even when trees are considered the results are often not good. Milton Keynes had a famous oak tree that became a centre piece of a shopping centre. The tree soon became diseased and eventually died.

dreen 7y ago

Check out the Noel Park Friendship Tree [1]. Seems like the road has been built around it since at least 1894 [2] (though maybe another tree was there before). [1] https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5969952,-0.1033777,3a,15y,198.86h,67.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssvHxWpyBFjqefJqFz46P4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5969952,-0.1033777,3a,15y,... [2] https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/appendix_1_noel_park_caamp_finalised_3.compressed_0.pdf https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/append...

leonroy 7y ago

One of the things that still chills is me is how Palo Alto city council decided to fell an entire street of old trees to make it look tidy: http://www.paulgraham.com/californiaavenueoaks.html http://www.paulgraham.com/californiaavenueoaks.html That said if you ever fly over the UK you'll notice it's a beautiful quilted patchwork of green fields and hedgerows. The UK used to be covered in old woodland forests. Much of it was felled over the centuries, with most of it being cut down during the medieval period. Not a lot of ancient woodland is left here nor indeed in the US. That said California still has quite a bit. Muir Woods are on my bucket list of places to visit. A full list of old forests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests

Gravityloss 7y ago
Sad. These investigations never go anywhere. In my city they have relentlessly pursued some people who graffiti painted some trains decades ago with massive retribution lawsuits. Yet any city official or workman can fell any number of trees with no permission whatsoever and the whole chain of command just shrugs. A paint factory (accidentally) poured a huge amount of poison to a river. All the fish died. Nothing again really happened, all the law cases were dismissed. (The company did voluntarily repent and support later conservation efforts.)
inamberclad 7y ago
Decades later and that street still looks bleak.
eru 7y ago
Well, at least they replaced the trees instead of just removing them.
Mvandenbergh 7y ago
It's actually an open scientific question how much of Europe was covered by forest vs meadows. One of the main things that argues for rather more meadows is that we have trees that grow quite poorly / not at all in forests but very well by themselves.
knolax 7y ago
Ironic given that the city was named after a tree.

renewiltord 7y ago

They realized a bit late. Europe razed her forests. Maybe they can track their trees because they only have so many. To compare: CA is about twice as big as the UK and Californians own more forests as individuals than the UK has in total. Four times as much area in California is forest as in the UK in total. They owe the rest of the Earth a terrible debt.

avianlyric 7y ago
Before we go too far with the UK bashing. It’s worth noting that the UK’s population is ~66 million. California is ~44 million. California population density is ~251 people/sq mile. UK population density is ~727 people/sq mile. So the UK has almost 3x the population density, the UK simply doesn’t have oodles of unused space like the US. So a significantly reduced number of trees and forests isn’t much of a surprise.
- renewiltord 7y ago
  Indeed, but more people isn't good for its own sake. Lest we forget, California produces almost as much in its economy as the UK does with 2/3rds the people. We are more forested, we are more people-efficient, we are just as power-efficient, our energy comes form just as good sources. They need to step up. Our conditions here will not last forever and it is time for them to reforest, and pay the debt they owe the Earth.
  - avianlyric 7y ago
    If feel like you’re arrogantly ignoring the fact that California is part of the much larger US economy, and all the benefits that entails. And that despite the so called “good power sources” California still emits almost double the Co2 per capita than the UK (CA ~10 ton / capita; ~6 ton / capita; for 2017). You’re also forgetting that most of the UKs deforestation periods occurred during World Wars I & II, so the US also benefited significantly from this deforestation. The UK has also done a significant amount of _re_forestation. Increasing forest coverage from a low of 9% to 38% today[1]. So before you march around telling people to “step up” perhaps consider doing a little research, and examine your own impacts on the world. Don’t just belittle others. [1]: https://www.ies-uk.org.uk/deforestation.php https://www.ies-uk.org.uk/deforestation.php

globular-toast 7y ago

Unfortunately I've noticed that a lot of development in the UK now starts with razing the area to the ground rather than working with the existing plant life. Even when trees are considered the results are often not good. Milton Keynes had a famous oak tree that became a centre piece of a shopping centre. The tree soon became diseased and eventually died.