4 ms·

What is the official definition of a 'folk language' in Russia? Any language traditionally spoken in Russia which isn't an official language (or which isn't Rus

What is the official definition of a 'folk language' in Russia? Any language traditionally spoken in Russia which isn't an official language (or which isn't Russian itself)? And, second question, does this mean there can't be 'folk songs' in Russian? (I mean, English, despite being an official language in several countries, certainly has folk songs, for instance.)

int_19h 6y ago
It's nationalist pseudohistory. Russian language evolved, same as any other. Now, for some languages, the process of establishing the literary standard leans more on the de facto vernacular, and for others it derives more from the pre-existing standards previously limited to some niche - e.g. common liturgical/theological language, or language of science. In case of modern literary Russian, it's derived more from Church Slavonic than Ukrainian or Belarusian, which emphasized vernacular - but it doesn't mean that it's not a "folk language".
- _emacsomancer_ 6y ago
  Questions about language evolution and the relation of 'vernaculars' and 'standards' is in my wheelhouse, in fact. (Church Slavonic is South Slavic and Russian is firmly East Slavic, like Ukranian and Belarusian, at least in terms of its descent, but as both Church Slavonic and Russian have been 'standards', its not surprising that Russian (at least the standardised, formal versions of Russian) would have been influenced by (the standardised) Church Slavonic).) But in this case, I was just wondering about which languages (in the pseudohistory) are considered 'folk languages'. Does Ukrainian count as a 'folk language'? Are all Slavic languages in Russia that aren't Russian 'folk languages'?
  - drran 6y ago
    Ukrainian language IS the folk language. It was known as "folk language" ("народная молва") previously.
    - int_19h 6y ago
      By Ukrainians, sure. It's pretty common for people to refer to their own speech simply as "the speech", and have more specific labels for other people. Ukrainian (and Russian, and most other Slavic languages) also uses a word for Germans that literally means "mute", for similar reasons.
      - drran 6y ago
        Ukrainian language is called "folk language" (народная молва) in Russian language. In Ukrainian, it just "language" (мова).
        int_19h 6y ago
        Ukrainian language is called "украинский язык" in Russian. And "молва" doesn't mean "язык" in Russian at all - it means "rumors".
drran 6y ago
It's better to start with example. (Sadly, it deleted from Youtube). 2014. Russian Federation just captured Crimea from Ukraine. To celebrate, they invited Cuban Cossack choir from RF. When choir started to sing, everyone started to laugh. Why? Because choir signs folk songs in their native, Ukrainian language. If you dig deeper, you will see that every folk choir in Russia has it repertoire split in two parts: songs in Russian, and folk songs in their own native language. Yep, it's possible for folk songs to exist in Russian language. However, currently, no folk songs in Russian language are found. I spent years looking for one.

int_19h 6y ago

It's nationalist pseudohistory. Russian language evolved, same as any other. Now, for some languages, the process of establishing the literary standard leans more on the de facto vernacular, and for others it derives more from the pre-existing standards previously limited to some niche - e.g. common liturgical/theological language, or language of science. In case of modern literary Russian, it's derived more from Church Slavonic than Ukrainian or Belarusian, which emphasized vernacular - but it doesn't mean that it's not a "folk language".

_emacsomancer_ 6y ago
Questions about language evolution and the relation of 'vernaculars' and 'standards' is in my wheelhouse, in fact. (Church Slavonic is South Slavic and Russian is firmly East Slavic, like Ukranian and Belarusian, at least in terms of its descent, but as both Church Slavonic and Russian have been 'standards', its not surprising that Russian (at least the standardised, formal versions of Russian) would have been influenced by (the standardised) Church Slavonic).) But in this case, I was just wondering about which languages (in the pseudohistory) are considered 'folk languages'. Does Ukrainian count as a 'folk language'? Are all Slavic languages in Russia that aren't Russian 'folk languages'?
- drran 6y ago
  Ukrainian language IS the folk language. It was known as "folk language" ("народная молва") previously.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    By Ukrainians, sure. It's pretty common for people to refer to their own speech simply as "the speech", and have more specific labels for other people. Ukrainian (and Russian, and most other Slavic languages) also uses a word for Germans that literally means "mute", for similar reasons.
    - drran 6y ago
      Ukrainian language is called "folk language" (народная молва) in Russian language. In Ukrainian, it just "language" (мова).
      - int_19h 6y ago
        Ukrainian language is called "украинский язык" in Russian. And "молва" doesn't mean "язык" in Russian at all - it means "rumors".

drran 6y ago

It's better to start with example. (Sadly, it deleted from Youtube). 2014. Russian Federation just captured Crimea from Ukraine. To celebrate, they invited Cuban Cossack choir from RF. When choir started to sing, everyone started to laugh. Why? Because choir signs folk songs in their native, Ukrainian language. If you dig deeper, you will see that every folk choir in Russia has it repertoire split in two parts: songs in Russian, and folk songs in their own native language. Yep, it's possible for folk songs to exist in Russian language. However, currently, no folk songs in Russian language are found. I spent years looking for one.