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I'm curious if "accountability" actually means anything in practice, or if it's just some of the Palantir corporate kool-aid. I don't think everyone associates

I'm curious if "accountability" actually means anything in practice, or if it's just some of the Palantir corporate kool-aid. I don't think everyone associates government agencies with pristine records of holding themselves accountable.

taywrobel 6y ago
I’ve only worked with a handful of LEOs in my time there, but the ones I did work with were genuinely concerned about it. If you’ve never worked with a government agency before, let me tell you, Hanlon’s Razor is in full effect. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The higher ups know that free reign for their officers to look up anything is a recipe for legal nightmares. The individual officers are often just too dumb to realize that they shouldn’t search for something, and do so out of curiosity. Having blocks in the way like requiring a case number be entered to run a search, and knowing that that search and results are forever associated to that case, cut down a lot on abuse. Are all forms of abuse the same, or so easily mitigated? No, but I’d like for some system to audit that and at least try to enforce it.
- patrickaljord 6y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. All your comments have been very well and politely argued (whether people agree with them or not) and this is the first time I got a pick at what palantir is actually doing. Thanks for the info.
  - taywrobel 6y ago
    Meh, it’s fine, downvotes don’t bother me. Especially when you take the position that goes against common opinion, it’s to be expected. The irony to me is that when I was at Palantir they talked extremely openly about all their technology. A ton of it was open sourced, and in depth tech talks were posted to YouTube, but almost no one watched them. I think people just like writing them off as shady or sketchy because it’s easier than needing to reason about the clear ethical nuance that exists in the government contractor space.
- pdeuchler 6y ago
  > The individual officers are often just too dumb You know, my dad always told me to just listen to people... eventually they'll tell you who they truly are.
  - taywrobel 6y ago
    During a training, demonstrating how to do geo searches on license plate data from ALPRs, a detective insisted we look up their car. The hits were all more or less expected, a bunch around their home and the precinct, local supermarkets, etc. But then a weird grouping way out of town. Detective insisted it was a mistake and wanted more data, thinking someone stole his license plate (insert eye roll here). Anyways, zooming in and looking at the highest density of hits, it ended up being a strip club that he frequented. He got bright red and his buddies didn't stop giving him shit for it all day. And this was a detective, not a beat officer.
    - dave5104 6y ago
      This right here is a great argument for why "helping them use [the data they already have] more effectively" (as you've said) is probably not as great a mission as you're making it out to be.
      - taywrobel 6y ago
        I mean, I left? I’m not saying it’s perfect, but scapegoating the company is avoiding the real issue, which is the government policies or the enactment thereof.
- taurath 6y ago
  It prevents crimes of opportunity, much like leaving a brand new macbook pro in the driveway is a bad idea.

taywrobel 6y ago

I’ve only worked with a handful of LEOs in my time there, but the ones I did work with were genuinely concerned about it. If you’ve never worked with a government agency before, let me tell you, Hanlon’s Razor is in full effect. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The higher ups know that free reign for their officers to look up anything is a recipe for legal nightmares. The individual officers are often just too dumb to realize that they shouldn’t search for something, and do so out of curiosity. Having blocks in the way like requiring a case number be entered to run a search, and knowing that that search and results are forever associated to that case, cut down a lot on abuse. Are all forms of abuse the same, or so easily mitigated? No, but I’d like for some system to audit that and at least try to enforce it.

patrickaljord 6y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. All your comments have been very well and politely argued (whether people agree with them or not) and this is the first time I got a pick at what palantir is actually doing. Thanks for the info.
- taywrobel 6y ago
  Meh, it’s fine, downvotes don’t bother me. Especially when you take the position that goes against common opinion, it’s to be expected. The irony to me is that when I was at Palantir they talked extremely openly about all their technology. A ton of it was open sourced, and in depth tech talks were posted to YouTube, but almost no one watched them. I think people just like writing them off as shady or sketchy because it’s easier than needing to reason about the clear ethical nuance that exists in the government contractor space.
pdeuchler 6y ago
> The individual officers are often just too dumb You know, my dad always told me to just listen to people... eventually they'll tell you who they truly are.
- taywrobel 6y ago
  During a training, demonstrating how to do geo searches on license plate data from ALPRs, a detective insisted we look up their car. The hits were all more or less expected, a bunch around their home and the precinct, local supermarkets, etc. But then a weird grouping way out of town. Detective insisted it was a mistake and wanted more data, thinking someone stole his license plate (insert eye roll here). Anyways, zooming in and looking at the highest density of hits, it ended up being a strip club that he frequented. He got bright red and his buddies didn't stop giving him shit for it all day. And this was a detective, not a beat officer.
  - dave5104 6y ago
    This right here is a great argument for why "helping them use [the data they already have] more effectively" (as you've said) is probably not as great a mission as you're making it out to be.
    - taywrobel 6y ago
      I mean, I left? I’m not saying it’s perfect, but scapegoating the company is avoiding the real issue, which is the government policies or the enactment thereof.
taurath 6y ago
It prevents crimes of opportunity, much like leaving a brand new macbook pro in the driveway is a bad idea.