15 ms·

Scientists create antibody that defeats coronavirus in lab

126 points by miked85 6y ago

trenchgun 6y ago
Relevant xkcd
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
bookofjoe 6y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y.pdf
- fspeech 6y ago
  Is it standard to report antibody concentration in μg/ml? How likely is it to deliver the reported IC50 to the lung? Also do antibody typically not have cytotoxic concentration because of their specificity?
  - diag 6y ago
    Protein concentration is essentially always presented as mass/volume in every scientific paper I've ever read.
xchip 6y ago
The problem is to find an antibody that defeats just corona and not other cells, like nerves and other stuff you need
- a_t48 6y ago
  > The antibody known as 47D11 targets the spike protein that gives the new coronavirus a crown-like shape and lets it enter human cells. In the Utrecht experiments, it didn’t just defeat the virus responsible for Covid-19 but also a cousin equipped with similar spike proteins, which causes Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, or SARS. > Monoclonal antibodies are lab-created proteins that resemble naturally occurring versions the body raises to fight off bacteria and viruses. Highly potent, they target exactly one site on a virus. In this case, the scientists used genetically modified mice to produce different antibodies to the spike proteins of coronaviruses. After a subsequent screening process, 47D11 emerged as showing neutralizing activity. Researchers then reformatted that antibody to create a fully human version, according to the paper. I don't have any biology background - are you saying this targeting might not work?
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    They are saying that targeting can be not exclusive for example an antibody that targets the spikes might also bind with the receptors they connect too. Then there is the question of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhanceme...
  - pazimzadeh 6y ago
    The antibody recognizes a particular 3D shape on the virus, called an epitope. There is a chance that a similar shape exists in humans, and using this antibody would cause your immune system to attack itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry
  - zxv 6y ago
    The antibody fits the spike protein like a lock and key. They key might fit other locks in humans with varying degrees of fit, on other cells in the body. There are two such lock-and-keys on the antibody, the other key fits the immune system cells, that start a cascade that amplifies the immune response. Even if it is a weak fit for an unintended target, the response can be an issue.
  - greglindahl 6y ago
    The reason we carefully test things that work in a petri dish is that some of them harm people, and many others don't work in people.
    - prox 6y ago
      I once saw a good talk that mentioned that -any- drug has a chance to be adversial. Drugs that work on most people might make another sick. This is indeed why there is so much testing and careful indexing side effects.
- mr_toad 6y ago
  The bigger problem is usually the immune system deciding that the antibody itself is a foreign body, and attacking it. The biggest problem though, is cost. If you don’t have insurance, you may have to add a second mortgage to your house.
- asdff 6y ago
  From the first figure, this one is highly specific to SARS-COV with like no off target effects from looking at the negative control.
steveeq1 6y ago
Yes, a vaccine MAY be possible, but the news reports I'm hearing are wildly optimistic at best. It will also take an enormous amount of energy/willpower to quarantine until then. It might be more economically efficient (and convenient) for the strong and healthy to purposefully self-infect, and build up anti-bodies naturally. Herd immunity will eventually be built and corona will no longer be a problem.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  In case anyone is thinking similarly, remember that vulnerable people (old people)'s social networks are mostly other vulnerable people. Even if herd immunity was "achieved" in the younger cohort, the old would be at basically the same level of risk because if one old person gets infected, it'll spread through the unprotected social network quite easily. You need it to be well mixed to be effective. That all being said, if theories of initial viral loads making a difference are true, it's not that crazy to imagine individuals choosing to self infect with a very small initial viral load so they can just stop needing to tip toe around life with the concern that they infect others, while continuing to isolate on their own. If I lived alone I'd be tempted.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    You need to balance not jut your chance of death, which is low if you’re very young, but your chances of getting very very sick. Spending a few weeks in the ICU is a good way to bankrupt yourself on the path towards returning to regular work, let alone how hard a ventilator is on even survivors. Plus, we have no idea what happens to the infected a few years or a decade from now. If given the choice, not getting sick at all is the best possible outcome.
    - notRobot 6y ago
      > Spending a few weeks in the ICU is a good way to bankrupt yourself Only in the US :|
      - 6y ago
dllthomas 6y ago
Relevant: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirus https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/mo...
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
I like how certain anti-science folk are suddenly crying for science to save them.
pjdorrell 6y ago
How much do monoclonal antibody treatments cost, per patient, usually? For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570079/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570079/ Also, how much of the high cost is research cost, and how much of that is per-unit production cost?
- steelframe 6y ago
  My most recent treatment of ocrelizumab was ~$64k, which I have to get twice a year. It's not much more expensive than a lot of the other disease-modifying therapies for my condition.
redis_mlc 6y ago
Bleach would work too.
LatteLazy 6y ago
https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/

126 points by miked85 6y ago

trenchgun 6y ago

Relevant xkcd

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

bookofjoe 6y ago

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y.pdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-16256-y.pdf

fspeech 6y ago
Is it standard to report antibody concentration in μg/ml? How likely is it to deliver the reported IC50 to the lung? Also do antibody typically not have cytotoxic concentration because of their specificity?
- diag 6y ago
  Protein concentration is essentially always presented as mass/volume in every scientific paper I've ever read.

xchip 6y ago

The problem is to find an antibody that defeats just corona and not other cells, like nerves and other stuff you need

a_t48 6y ago
> The antibody known as 47D11 targets the spike protein that gives the new coronavirus a crown-like shape and lets it enter human cells. In the Utrecht experiments, it didn’t just defeat the virus responsible for Covid-19 but also a cousin equipped with similar spike proteins, which causes Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, or SARS. > Monoclonal antibodies are lab-created proteins that resemble naturally occurring versions the body raises to fight off bacteria and viruses. Highly potent, they target exactly one site on a virus. In this case, the scientists used genetically modified mice to produce different antibodies to the spike proteins of coronaviruses. After a subsequent screening process, 47D11 emerged as showing neutralizing activity. Researchers then reformatted that antibody to create a fully human version, according to the paper. I don't have any biology background - are you saying this targeting might not work?
- dogma1138 6y ago
  They are saying that targeting can be not exclusive for example an antibody that targets the spikes might also bind with the receptors they connect too. Then there is the question of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhanceme...
- pazimzadeh 6y ago
  The antibody recognizes a particular 3D shape on the virus, called an epitope. There is a chance that a similar shape exists in humans, and using this antibody would cause your immune system to attack itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry
- zxv 6y ago
  The antibody fits the spike protein like a lock and key. They key might fit other locks in humans with varying degrees of fit, on other cells in the body. There are two such lock-and-keys on the antibody, the other key fits the immune system cells, that start a cascade that amplifies the immune response. Even if it is a weak fit for an unintended target, the response can be an issue.
- greglindahl 6y ago
  The reason we carefully test things that work in a petri dish is that some of them harm people, and many others don't work in people.
  - prox 6y ago
    I once saw a good talk that mentioned that -any- drug has a chance to be adversial. Drugs that work on most people might make another sick. This is indeed why there is so much testing and careful indexing side effects.
mr_toad 6y ago
The bigger problem is usually the immune system deciding that the antibody itself is a foreign body, and attacking it. The biggest problem though, is cost. If you don’t have insurance, you may have to add a second mortgage to your house.
asdff 6y ago
From the first figure, this one is highly specific to SARS-COV with like no off target effects from looking at the negative control.

steveeq1 6y ago

Yes, a vaccine MAY be possible, but the news reports I'm hearing are wildly optimistic at best. It will also take an enormous amount of energy/willpower to quarantine until then. It might be more economically efficient (and convenient) for the strong and healthy to purposefully self-infect, and build up anti-bodies naturally. Herd immunity will eventually be built and corona will no longer be a problem.

klmadfejno 6y ago
In case anyone is thinking similarly, remember that vulnerable people (old people)'s social networks are mostly other vulnerable people. Even if herd immunity was "achieved" in the younger cohort, the old would be at basically the same level of risk because if one old person gets infected, it'll spread through the unprotected social network quite easily. You need it to be well mixed to be effective. That all being said, if theories of initial viral loads making a difference are true, it's not that crazy to imagine individuals choosing to self infect with a very small initial viral load so they can just stop needing to tip toe around life with the concern that they infect others, while continuing to isolate on their own. If I lived alone I'd be tempted.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  You need to balance not jut your chance of death, which is low if you’re very young, but your chances of getting very very sick. Spending a few weeks in the ICU is a good way to bankrupt yourself on the path towards returning to regular work, let alone how hard a ventilator is on even survivors. Plus, we have no idea what happens to the infected a few years or a decade from now. If given the choice, not getting sick at all is the best possible outcome.
  - notRobot 6y ago
    > Spending a few weeks in the ICU is a good way to bankrupt yourself Only in the US :|
    - 6y ago

dllthomas 6y ago

Relevant: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/monoclonal-antibodies-for-the-coronavirus https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/27/mo...

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

I like how certain anti-science folk are suddenly crying for science to save them.

pjdorrell 6y ago

How much do monoclonal antibody treatments cost, per patient, usually? For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570079/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4570079/ Also, how much of the high cost is research cost, and how much of that is per-unit production cost?

steelframe 6y ago
My most recent treatment of ocrelizumab was ~$64k, which I have to get twice a year. It's not much more expensive than a lot of the other disease-modifying therapies for my condition.

redis_mlc 6y ago

Bleach would work too.

LatteLazy 6y ago

https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/