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I think that's taking things a bit too far. Of course, the ultimate goal of every for-profit corporation is to make a profit. But along the way, most of them ar

I think that's taking things a bit too far. Of course, the ultimate goal of every for-profit corporation is to make a profit. But along the way, most of them are providing value to society. So much of the Internet as we know it is built atop AWS. Many people are able to shelter in place with minimal impact largely because of the groundwork laid by Amazon, during more than a decade of not being profitable. That includes ordering equipment to work from home, ordering home goods to avoid going out, running the compute infrastructure that powers teleconferencing tools like Zoom, providing entertainment options through Prime Video, etc. etc. How many families are staying in touch through Facebook Messenger, video chats, and just plain old photos? How many grandparents feel less alone because they can see their family members and a wealth of photos every day? How many old friends reconnect because Facebook exists? Google makes the world better in so many ways that I can't even pretend to address it exhaustively. I personally have been able to experience remote places thanks to Flights, Translate, and Maps. I use Search hundreds of times a week... the world's knowledge is more accessible than ever before thanks in part to Google's efforts to organize it. I think it's totally right to call out companies where their behavior is poor. I think we need to demand—both through social pressure and through laws—that companies respect privacy, treat workers well, and minimally impact the environment. But I think it's taking it a step too far to claim that the world is worse off for the effort of FAANG employees. Even those working on ads... if there's no ad revenue, none of those other benefits exist.

ssklash 6y ago
I agree that we should demand that companies should respect privacy. And if they did, Facebook and Google would cease to exist, or have never existed in the first place. They are surveillance capitalism, pure and simple. They may make Gmail free and make it seem like a photo sharing service exists to help grandparents connect with their kids, but those are simply hooks to lure people in for their data. They have all sorts of cool, free services to disguise the fact that they are looking for your data. No one denies the usefulness of Maps or search or FB messenger. But to pretend that Google and Facebook do it out of the goodness of their hearts or because they care about "connecting people" is naive and exactly what their messaging is intended to convey. Amazon at least provides useful services. They do it on the backs of underpaid and poorly treated warehouse workers, but Prime shipping is sweet! Treatment of those interested in unionizing is about the biggest indicator of a company's values, and Amazon is quite clear on that point. My main point overall is why work for a company like that when there are others doing the good things FAANG companies pretend to be providing?
- BrandonM 6y ago
  I don't think anyone is claiming that these companies are acting out of the goodness of their hearts. These companies all have missions, though. Companies are made up of people. Some of those people believe in those missions and choose to work for those companies for those reasons. A larger group of people are happy to exchange time for money, provided that their company does not stray too far from its mission. It's not a black-and-white choice between "goodness of their hearts" or ruthlessly exploitative capitalism. There's a huge gray area in between, and that's where social and legal guardrails (for better or for worse) have to help ensure that companies act in a socially responsible way. I don't have experience with Facebook specifically, but I have worked with Google's security team. From what I've seen, Google truly cares about securing their users' data in a way that exceeds the standards of other large enterprises that I've worked with. I get a ton of spam emails and phone calls every day, and never once have I suspected that it was because Google or Facebook violated my privacy. I'd rather focus my ire on companies like Equifax or popular browser plugin acquirers or the debt collection system or even mall sweepstakes. All of these entities egregiously violate privacy by blatantly sharing user information, auctioning it off to the highest bidder, or recklessly failing to secure it.

ssklash 6y ago

I agree that we should demand that companies should respect privacy. And if they did, Facebook and Google would cease to exist, or have never existed in the first place. They are surveillance capitalism, pure and simple. They may make Gmail free and make it seem like a photo sharing service exists to help grandparents connect with their kids, but those are simply hooks to lure people in for their data. They have all sorts of cool, free services to disguise the fact that they are looking for your data. No one denies the usefulness of Maps or search or FB messenger. But to pretend that Google and Facebook do it out of the goodness of their hearts or because they care about "connecting people" is naive and exactly what their messaging is intended to convey. Amazon at least provides useful services. They do it on the backs of underpaid and poorly treated warehouse workers, but Prime shipping is sweet! Treatment of those interested in unionizing is about the biggest indicator of a company's values, and Amazon is quite clear on that point. My main point overall is why work for a company like that when there are others doing the good things FAANG companies pretend to be providing?

BrandonM 6y ago
I don't think anyone is claiming that these companies are acting out of the goodness of their hearts. These companies all have missions, though. Companies are made up of people. Some of those people believe in those missions and choose to work for those companies for those reasons. A larger group of people are happy to exchange time for money, provided that their company does not stray too far from its mission. It's not a black-and-white choice between "goodness of their hearts" or ruthlessly exploitative capitalism. There's a huge gray area in between, and that's where social and legal guardrails (for better or for worse) have to help ensure that companies act in a socially responsible way. I don't have experience with Facebook specifically, but I have worked with Google's security team. From what I've seen, Google truly cares about securing their users' data in a way that exceeds the standards of other large enterprises that I've worked with. I get a ton of spam emails and phone calls every day, and never once have I suspected that it was because Google or Facebook violated my privacy. I'd rather focus my ire on companies like Equifax or popular browser plugin acquirers or the debt collection system or even mall sweepstakes. All of these entities egregiously violate privacy by blatantly sharing user information, auctioning it off to the highest bidder, or recklessly failing to secure it.