4 ms·

Are you really saying that you can't afford to pay $5 from your own pocket for XCode 4? What price, other than $0, would be acceptable for a tool that took yea

by kjksf 16y ago

Are you really saying that you can't afford to pay $5 from your own pocket for XCode 4? What price, other than $0, would be acceptable for a tool that took years of effort by a team of programmers and cost Apple tens of millions in programmer's salaries to develop?

randylahey 16y ago
The point is not that it's $4, or $10,000 or $0.25. The point is that now that money has to come from somewhere. This throws up a sizeable obstacle for anyone looking to do development on the platform and will especially hurt FOSS. If you can't see this, I don't really know what to say. Apple literally makes billions of dollars on software, you'd think they'd throw the developers that literally helped build their ecosystem a freaking bone. I suppose that's too much to ask from Apple. Cue the "vote with your wallet", "no one is forcing you to use it" rabble...
- jedsmith 16y ago
  No, cue the you're assuming you won't get Xcode 4 with Lion rabble. Seriously. Don't jump to conclusions yet. Can you clarify the $5-hurts-FOSS argument? I don't mean to sound crass, but there are people who pay more than $5 for coffee. If a one-time charge of $5 to build OS X versions of your FOSS project is a, as you say, "[sizable] obstacle" to entering FOSS development, that's a genuine surprise to me. Especially since Xcode 3 is still absolutely free. If I were a committer on your project I'd buy it myself and donate it, for crying out loud. They anticipated this, undoubtedly, and put the button right there: "Looking for Xcode 3 because $5 is too much? Here it is!" You're really only paying for the improved GUI. Does your FOSS project use Xcode as its primary development platform, or is it just using the compiler toolchain? This revolt to $5 is absolutely stunning. Even more worth thinking about is that all the commenting about it on HN equates to far more than $5 in billable time...how many copies could the revolting have purchased?
  - cooldeal 16y ago
    The reason that people are pissed is that it's one more annoying hoop to jump through, especially for people without iTunes accounts.What about people kids without credit cards or Paypal? All this for what? A paltry $10 million or so for Apple which is already rolling in tens of bilions of cash(partly thanks to developers, you always see Jobs touting the app count). Is it even worth it for Apple? The company is smacking of greed and squeezing the last dollar these days with all these moves like a forced 30% cut of services and now this, which can damage the ecosystem. >No, cue the you're assuming you won't get Xcode 4 with Lion rabble. That makes it even worse, Apple can't be making more than $5 million from this.
    - jarin 16y ago
      No, the reason that people are pissed is because they want to be pissed. There's no real reason to rage about this, other than a self-created illusion that the only thing stopping some hypothetical FOSS developer somewhere in Romania from creating the next Apache is the inability to pay Apple 5 dollars.
      - randylahey 16y ago
        Right, because no one should be worried when Apple makes overtures towards monetizing what has been traditionally the only working compiler tool chain for OSX. Thanks, I guess I was just over-reacting. :P It's amusing how any time Apple does something like this the apologists come out of the woodwork falling over each other to defend them.
        jarin 16y ago
        Believe me, Apple has given me plenty of reason to be angry at them before (I've been a victim of their arbitrary App Store rejections). I'm just saying we should all keep a little perspective on this particular issue.
oemera 16y ago
I think it sounds little sharp here BUT I have to admit I paid several bucks to save me from headaches at work. I bought software which made me a lot more productive and it sometimes cost me more than 60 bucks AND I'm really using those software at work not at home cause I don't need them at home.
reedlaw 16y ago
Maybe the parent is willing but will every undergrad with only a passing interest in running or developing open source software be willing?
deleted 16y ago
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deleted 16y ago
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montagg 16y ago
It's just better business to make the price $0. $5 doesn't seem expensive. It just seems... odd.
- ghaff 16y ago
  Bingo. It throws an obstacle (however small) in front of one of your most important assets, a huge developer community, for minimal gain. It would be one thing if Apple, rightly or wrongly, decided that developers had to be commit to a $XXX/yr developer program. It's another to just say that developers on the current version of tools have to throw in some trivial amount given that seems to affect tire kicking levels more than revenues.
  - jarin 16y ago
    This comes up every single time Apple charges for something small, but it's most likely due to Sarbanes-Oxley compliance.
mn0 16y ago
Here's my problem with it: I have code in GCC and they want to sell my code back to me.

by kjksf 16y ago

randylahey 16y ago

The point is not that it's $4, or $10,000 or $0.25. The point is that now that money has to come from somewhere. This throws up a sizeable obstacle for anyone looking to do development on the platform and will especially hurt FOSS. If you can't see this, I don't really know what to say. Apple literally makes billions of dollars on software, you'd think they'd throw the developers that literally helped build their ecosystem a freaking bone. I suppose that's too much to ask from Apple. Cue the "vote with your wallet", "no one is forcing you to use it" rabble...

jedsmith 16y ago
No, cue the you're assuming you won't get Xcode 4 with Lion rabble. Seriously. Don't jump to conclusions yet. Can you clarify the $5-hurts-FOSS argument? I don't mean to sound crass, but there are people who pay more than $5 for coffee. If a one-time charge of $5 to build OS X versions of your FOSS project is a, as you say, "[sizable] obstacle" to entering FOSS development, that's a genuine surprise to me. Especially since Xcode 3 is still absolutely free. If I were a committer on your project I'd buy it myself and donate it, for crying out loud. They anticipated this, undoubtedly, and put the button right there: "Looking for Xcode 3 because $5 is too much? Here it is!" You're really only paying for the improved GUI. Does your FOSS project use Xcode as its primary development platform, or is it just using the compiler toolchain? This revolt to $5 is absolutely stunning. Even more worth thinking about is that all the commenting about it on HN equates to far more than $5 in billable time...how many copies could the revolting have purchased?
- cooldeal 16y ago
  The reason that people are pissed is that it's one more annoying hoop to jump through, especially for people without iTunes accounts.What about people kids without credit cards or Paypal? All this for what? A paltry $10 million or so for Apple which is already rolling in tens of bilions of cash(partly thanks to developers, you always see Jobs touting the app count). Is it even worth it for Apple? The company is smacking of greed and squeezing the last dollar these days with all these moves like a forced 30% cut of services and now this, which can damage the ecosystem. >No, cue the you're assuming you won't get Xcode 4 with Lion rabble. That makes it even worse, Apple can't be making more than $5 million from this.
  - jarin 16y ago
    No, the reason that people are pissed is because they want to be pissed. There's no real reason to rage about this, other than a self-created illusion that the only thing stopping some hypothetical FOSS developer somewhere in Romania from creating the next Apache is the inability to pay Apple 5 dollars.
    - randylahey 16y ago
      Right, because no one should be worried when Apple makes overtures towards monetizing what has been traditionally the only working compiler tool chain for OSX. Thanks, I guess I was just over-reacting. :P It's amusing how any time Apple does something like this the apologists come out of the woodwork falling over each other to defend them.
      - jarin 16y ago
        Believe me, Apple has given me plenty of reason to be angry at them before (I've been a victim of their arbitrary App Store rejections). I'm just saying we should all keep a little perspective on this particular issue.

oemera 16y ago

I think it sounds little sharp here BUT I have to admit I paid several bucks to save me from headaches at work. I bought software which made me a lot more productive and it sometimes cost me more than 60 bucks AND I'm really using those software at work not at home cause I don't need them at home.

reedlaw 16y ago

Maybe the parent is willing but will every undergrad with only a passing interest in running or developing open source software be willing?

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

montagg 16y ago

It's just better business to make the price $0. $5 doesn't seem expensive. It just seems... odd.

ghaff 16y ago
Bingo. It throws an obstacle (however small) in front of one of your most important assets, a huge developer community, for minimal gain. It would be one thing if Apple, rightly or wrongly, decided that developers had to be commit to a $XXX/yr developer program. It's another to just say that developers on the current version of tools have to throw in some trivial amount given that seems to affect tire kicking levels more than revenues.
- jarin 16y ago
  This comes up every single time Apple charges for something small, but it's most likely due to Sarbanes-Oxley compliance.

mn0 16y ago

Here's my problem with it: I have code in GCC and they want to sell my code back to me.