3 ms·

Are there 3rd world sweatshops that pay $16 USD/hour and provide benefits? I'd wager there are a few more differences than just the robots.

three_seagrass 6y ago
This is a No-True Scotsman. You asked for examples of Amazon sweatshop conditions, and once given, you're now redefining the semantics of 'true' sweatshops to being both in the third world and making less than $16/hour.
- pathseeker 6y ago
  No it's not. The very definition of sweatshop implies very low wages and long hours.
  - three_seagrass 6y ago
    According to Wikipedia, a sweatshop is semantically a workplace with very poor, socially unacceptable or illegal working conditions. The work may be difficult, dangerous, climatically challenging or underpaid. It's true that workers in sweatshops may work long hours with low pay, but it's not limited to that. If you read the article with the example that was asked for, you'd see the examples of how it's sweatshop conditions.
    - adamweld 6y ago
      I read through the article, I don't really see how it fits that definition. Long shifts on your feet, physical labor, short breaks and no cell phones. Precise tracking of performance. Does it sound like fun? Hell no. But it seems like decent pay for unskilled physical labor, and I haven't read anything that sounds like sweatshop conditions.
      - three_seagrass 6y ago
        12 hour shifts on your feet with no access to chairs, consistent 150 F work conditions, 30 minute lunch breaks that take 30 minutes to get to, no paid bathroom breaks, etc. are a few of the examples from this one article alone that are in line with the semantics of sweatshop conditions.
        300bps 6y ago
        consistent 150 F work conditions If she told you there were sharks with lasers on their heads would you have believed that too? The article is literally unbelievable.
        three_seagrass 6y ago
        No, but if multiple workers at multiple locations said the same thing, then it is more believable: >"I was really upset and I said, 'All you people care about is the rates, not the well-being of the people,' " she said. "I've never worked for an employer that had paramedics waiting outside for people to drop because of the extreme heat." There were so many reports of workers overheating that OSHA had to get involved: https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917-story.html https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-allentown-amazon-comp... That, along with other conditions reported, make it a literal sweatshop.
      - memonkey 6y ago
        The idea that physical labor being unskilled work has been perpetuated for thousands of years in class based systems despite the fact that any kind of work can involve both physical and intellectual skill. If you've ever worked in a warehouse, you would know that there are plenty of skills to learn and refine.
      - uoaei 6y ago
        $16/hr is decent pay in those conditions? They risk bringing the coronavirus home every day to their families. Their bodies are chewed up over the course of months until they start falling apart from the stress and wear. "short breaks" usually means something like "you're only allowed to go to the bathroom twice" which is technically illegal but Amazon spent a lot of money asking consultants and lawyers how to circumvent that. Not to mention they don't get paid while they're standing in line for 20+ minutes to get frisked before they leave.
mkolodny 6y ago
Here are a few examples of "sweatshop" conditions in the Amazon factory from the article: - No chairs for a 12-hour shift - Time spent going to the bathroom gets removed from your break time - 30-minute lunch includes a 30-minute round trip to get to the lunch room
- 300bps 6y ago
  Everyone looks at it through their own lens. To an employee that goes to the bathroom twice per day at work, monitoring bathroom break time sounds ludicrous. But what should Amazon do with people who want to take 20 ten minute bathroom breaks per day? The answer is you set a policy that everyone is equal under and stock to it. Other things seemed like unrealistic exaggerations. Like a 15 minute walk to the lunch room and barely having enough time to eat a sandwich, drink a soda and smoke a cigarette during the 30 minute break. Doesn’t add up. And stating it felt like 150 degrees and no fans were allowed because “robots don’t like the cold”. What robot works better in 150 degrees than 70 degrees? The stories don’t ring true to me and the pictures through the article from labor organizers tell me at least why the stories are being told.
  - grawprog 6y ago
    I'm not sure about Amazon exactly but 30 minute lunches with barely enough time to eat is pretty realistic. There's many places where lunches are from buzzer to buzzer period, whether you've eaten or not. If these places are large enough, and it seems they're pretty large, then yeah, every minute you've got to walk to your food is a minute taken off your lunch break.
amiga_500 6y ago
Rent is different in different countries. You cannot just quote $$

three_seagrass 6y ago

This is a No-True Scotsman. You asked for examples of Amazon sweatshop conditions, and once given, you're now redefining the semantics of 'true' sweatshops to being both in the third world and making less than $16/hour.

pathseeker 6y ago
No it's not. The very definition of sweatshop implies very low wages and long hours.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  According to Wikipedia, a sweatshop is semantically a workplace with very poor, socially unacceptable or illegal working conditions. The work may be difficult, dangerous, climatically challenging or underpaid. It's true that workers in sweatshops may work long hours with low pay, but it's not limited to that. If you read the article with the example that was asked for, you'd see the examples of how it's sweatshop conditions.
  - adamweld 6y ago
    I read through the article, I don't really see how it fits that definition. Long shifts on your feet, physical labor, short breaks and no cell phones. Precise tracking of performance. Does it sound like fun? Hell no. But it seems like decent pay for unskilled physical labor, and I haven't read anything that sounds like sweatshop conditions.
    - three_seagrass 6y ago
      12 hour shifts on your feet with no access to chairs, consistent 150 F work conditions, 30 minute lunch breaks that take 30 minutes to get to, no paid bathroom breaks, etc. are a few of the examples from this one article alone that are in line with the semantics of sweatshop conditions.
      - 300bps 6y ago
        consistent 150 F work conditions If she told you there were sharks with lasers on their heads would you have believed that too? The article is literally unbelievable.
        three_seagrass 6y ago
        No, but if multiple workers at multiple locations said the same thing, then it is more believable: >"I was really upset and I said, 'All you people care about is the rates, not the well-being of the people,' " she said. "I've never worked for an employer that had paramedics waiting outside for people to drop because of the extreme heat." There were so many reports of workers overheating that OSHA had to get involved: https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917-story.html https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-allentown-amazon-comp... That, along with other conditions reported, make it a literal sweatshop.
    - memonkey 6y ago
      The idea that physical labor being unskilled work has been perpetuated for thousands of years in class based systems despite the fact that any kind of work can involve both physical and intellectual skill. If you've ever worked in a warehouse, you would know that there are plenty of skills to learn and refine.
    - uoaei 6y ago
      $16/hr is decent pay in those conditions? They risk bringing the coronavirus home every day to their families. Their bodies are chewed up over the course of months until they start falling apart from the stress and wear. "short breaks" usually means something like "you're only allowed to go to the bathroom twice" which is technically illegal but Amazon spent a lot of money asking consultants and lawyers how to circumvent that. Not to mention they don't get paid while they're standing in line for 20+ minutes to get frisked before they leave.

mkolodny 6y ago

Here are a few examples of "sweatshop" conditions in the Amazon factory from the article: - No chairs for a 12-hour shift - Time spent going to the bathroom gets removed from your break time - 30-minute lunch includes a 30-minute round trip to get to the lunch room

300bps 6y ago
Everyone looks at it through their own lens. To an employee that goes to the bathroom twice per day at work, monitoring bathroom break time sounds ludicrous. But what should Amazon do with people who want to take 20 ten minute bathroom breaks per day? The answer is you set a policy that everyone is equal under and stock to it. Other things seemed like unrealistic exaggerations. Like a 15 minute walk to the lunch room and barely having enough time to eat a sandwich, drink a soda and smoke a cigarette during the 30 minute break. Doesn’t add up. And stating it felt like 150 degrees and no fans were allowed because “robots don’t like the cold”. What robot works better in 150 degrees than 70 degrees? The stories don’t ring true to me and the pictures through the article from labor organizers tell me at least why the stories are being told.
- grawprog 6y ago
  I'm not sure about Amazon exactly but 30 minute lunches with barely enough time to eat is pretty realistic. There's many places where lunches are from buzzer to buzzer period, whether you've eaten or not. If these places are large enough, and it seems they're pretty large, then yeah, every minute you've got to walk to your food is a minute taken off your lunch break.

amiga_500 6y ago

Rent is different in different countries. You cannot just quote $$