7 ms·

Everyone keeps talking about vi/emacs stuff. While that was annoying, the more annoying aspect was when macOS softlocked and I was unable to hit the chord (cmd+

by swang 6y ago

Everyone keeps talking about vi/emacs stuff. While that was annoying, the more annoying aspect was when macOS softlocked and I was unable to hit the chord (cmd+opt+esc) to get the kill task window because the touchbar froze as well. Having a virtual ESC key in software that can be frozen, where part of your keyboard chord to kill apps includes the ESC key is really, really, stupid and caused me lots of wasted time that could have been saved had there just been a hard ESC key.

geoelectric 6y ago
Mapping the Caps Lock key to Esc in the modifier remap interface is how I handled this situation (and others with essential ESC). Figured that probably wasn't coincidence that they added Esc to it when the new keyboard was introduced--was as much of a nod to mitigating a bad idea as we got. But yeah, it was stupid, especially given that software developers are a very visible market for them in the Bay Area. As soon as the 16" came out with an Esc, I ordered one at work and bought one at home so I guess they won, but it's another step towards getting me on a Linux or Windows PC a generation or two down the line.
- bashinator 6y ago
  This didn't work for those of us who map Caps Lock to Control, like god intended. IIRC, it wasn't possible to map the left Control key to ESC for some reason.
  - geoelectric 6y ago
    I actually use Karabiner now to do Ctrl if held, Esc if tapped. It’s a little tougher to walk people through though: 1) install karabiner elements 2) select complex modifications 3) add rule 4) import more from internet 5) import change caps lock key v4 6) add rule change caps_lock to control if pressed with other keys, to escape if pressed alone ...is my actual current setup, along with a bunch of other key mapping. But I started with what I posted above, which everyone with Mojave+ on a MBP has available already.
    - rrdharan 6y ago
      Is karabiner going to stop working in 10.16? Because of the kext lockdown/deprecation? I'm very afraid of getting too used to it and then having it stop working. https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements/issues/2149 https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements/issues/2149
      - geoelectric 6y ago
        I hadn't seen that before, but figures. More and more, a nice Lenovo, Dell, or System76 laptop running Linux is starting to sound really good. Hell, it's got better gaming support than Mac now, with Vulkan. As far as the immediate concern goes, Karabiner is such a popular thing that I suspect there'll be some way to support it. If not, I won't upgrade. I just bought this MacBook Pro, and it'll probably continue to be usable on 10.15.x for its lifetime. I'm not too interested in my gaming keyboard and 10 key pad becoming unusable, at any rate. If they actually completely kill software support for this, I guess next best thing would be a USB intermediary to process the key codes. Possible it's doable with a Raspberry PI or something, and there are enough mechanical keyboard enthusiasts on Mac someone would be motivated to do it. Won't help for the internal keyboard though.
        Wubdidu 6y ago
        The USB thingy already exists, I actually own one for macros with dumb keyboards. Its a very small USB-device with a USB port where you can attach standard USB keyboards. It runs QMK and essentially acts as a proxy, allowing you to program macros and what-not directly in QMK. A neat, little gadget. See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69169.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69169.0 Edit: Correction: It actually runs TMK, but I flashed QMK on it.
        geoelectric 6y ago
        Sweet! Thanks for pointing me at that. I have applications where I might be able to use that anyway (PS4 comes to mind).
      - 6y ago
  - geoelectric 6y ago
    Re left ctrl, btw, it’s possible now to map ctrl to esc. It’ll map both keys though—-the apple interface doesn’t do left/right. It’s a “simple modification” (specific type) in Karabiner though, if you use that. I use PC mechanical keyboards so most of my typing devices a) have swapped around mod keys and b) map right ctrl to fn so I can do Mac device hotkeys from pc keyboard.
chrischen 6y ago
Real Vi/emac users don’t use the esc key. It’s way too far frome home row.
- buttsu_ 6y ago
  i am a real vi user its not too far I use esc
  - pfranz 6y ago
    I think the parent was a bit tongue-in-cheek. It's in reference to the keyboard layout vi was developed with and the fact many vi users are obsessed with keeping their fingers on/near the home row (much like, "a /real/ vi user doesn't use the mouse"). Ctrl-[ is an equivalent to ESC on American English keyboards. https://dave.cheney.net/2017/08/21/the-here-is-key https://dave.cheney.net/2017/08/21/the-here-is-key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key#Avoiding_the_Esc_key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key#Avoiding_th...
- mellavora 6y ago
  Right! Real vi users have a foot pedal for escape. :__) *yes, fingers pointing at me
  - chrischen 6y ago
    I think most people actually remap to the ~ key, or if they're extreme they'll use tab. On my keyboard Escape already came as the ~ key and you have to use fn to access ~ or `. The ergonomics of moving it closer far outweigh any benefits from it being physical vs touchscreen.
    - tcoff91 6y ago
      Remap caps-lock to escape and you're good to go! Or remap capslock to control and use Ctrl-[. Or use karabiner and remap capslock to control-when-held and escape-when-pressed-quickly.
dillonmckay 6y ago
This happened to me last week. I did not notice at first, but I could not reduce the volume, since its control was gone. Then I tried to restart finder, but the escape key was ‘gone’. I have an even better story about the one that replaced this (same model).

by swang 6y ago

geoelectric 6y ago

Mapping the Caps Lock key to Esc in the modifier remap interface is how I handled this situation (and others with essential ESC). Figured that probably wasn't coincidence that they added Esc to it when the new keyboard was introduced--was as much of a nod to mitigating a bad idea as we got. But yeah, it was stupid, especially given that software developers are a very visible market for them in the Bay Area. As soon as the 16" came out with an Esc, I ordered one at work and bought one at home so I guess they won, but it's another step towards getting me on a Linux or Windows PC a generation or two down the line.

bashinator 6y ago
This didn't work for those of us who map Caps Lock to Control, like god intended. IIRC, it wasn't possible to map the left Control key to ESC for some reason.
- geoelectric 6y ago
  I actually use Karabiner now to do Ctrl if held, Esc if tapped. It’s a little tougher to walk people through though: 1) install karabiner elements 2) select complex modifications 3) add rule 4) import more from internet 5) import change caps lock key v4 6) add rule change caps_lock to control if pressed with other keys, to escape if pressed alone ...is my actual current setup, along with a bunch of other key mapping. But I started with what I posted above, which everyone with Mojave+ on a MBP has available already.
  - rrdharan 6y ago
    Is karabiner going to stop working in 10.16? Because of the kext lockdown/deprecation? I'm very afraid of getting too used to it and then having it stop working. https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements/issues/2149 https://github.com/pqrs-org/Karabiner-Elements/issues/2149
    - geoelectric 6y ago
      I hadn't seen that before, but figures. More and more, a nice Lenovo, Dell, or System76 laptop running Linux is starting to sound really good. Hell, it's got better gaming support than Mac now, with Vulkan. As far as the immediate concern goes, Karabiner is such a popular thing that I suspect there'll be some way to support it. If not, I won't upgrade. I just bought this MacBook Pro, and it'll probably continue to be usable on 10.15.x for its lifetime. I'm not too interested in my gaming keyboard and 10 key pad becoming unusable, at any rate. If they actually completely kill software support for this, I guess next best thing would be a USB intermediary to process the key codes. Possible it's doable with a Raspberry PI or something, and there are enough mechanical keyboard enthusiasts on Mac someone would be motivated to do it. Won't help for the internal keyboard though.
      - Wubdidu 6y ago
        The USB thingy already exists, I actually own one for macros with dumb keyboards. Its a very small USB-device with a USB port where you can attach standard USB keyboards. It runs QMK and essentially acts as a proxy, allowing you to program macros and what-not directly in QMK. A neat, little gadget. See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69169.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69169.0 Edit: Correction: It actually runs TMK, but I flashed QMK on it.
        geoelectric 6y ago
        Sweet! Thanks for pointing me at that. I have applications where I might be able to use that anyway (PS4 comes to mind).
    - 6y ago
- geoelectric 6y ago
  Re left ctrl, btw, it’s possible now to map ctrl to esc. It’ll map both keys though—-the apple interface doesn’t do left/right. It’s a “simple modification” (specific type) in Karabiner though, if you use that. I use PC mechanical keyboards so most of my typing devices a) have swapped around mod keys and b) map right ctrl to fn so I can do Mac device hotkeys from pc keyboard.

chrischen 6y ago

Real Vi/emac users don’t use the esc key. It’s way too far frome home row.

buttsu_ 6y ago
i am a real vi user its not too far I use esc
- pfranz 6y ago
  I think the parent was a bit tongue-in-cheek. It's in reference to the keyboard layout vi was developed with and the fact many vi users are obsessed with keeping their fingers on/near the home row (much like, "a /real/ vi user doesn't use the mouse"). Ctrl-[ is an equivalent to ESC on American English keyboards. https://dave.cheney.net/2017/08/21/the-here-is-key https://dave.cheney.net/2017/08/21/the-here-is-key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key#Avoiding_the_Esc_key https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key#Avoiding_th...
mellavora 6y ago
Right! Real vi users have a foot pedal for escape. :__) *yes, fingers pointing at me
- chrischen 6y ago
  I think most people actually remap to the ~ key, or if they're extreme they'll use tab. On my keyboard Escape already came as the ~ key and you have to use fn to access ~ or `. The ergonomics of moving it closer far outweigh any benefits from it being physical vs touchscreen.
  - tcoff91 6y ago
    Remap caps-lock to escape and you're good to go! Or remap capslock to control and use Ctrl-[. Or use karabiner and remap capslock to control-when-held and escape-when-pressed-quickly.

dillonmckay 6y ago

This happened to me last week. I did not notice at first, but I could not reduce the volume, since its control was gone. Then I tried to restart finder, but the escape key was ‘gone’. I have an even better story about the one that replaced this (same model).