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By definition, so are the incidents that are reported by NYTimes. Amazon has hundreds of fulfillment centers around the world, and it's possible that the suffer

By definition, so are the incidents that are reported by NYTimes. Amazon has hundreds of fulfillment centers around the world, and it's possible that the sufferings of some workers are exceptions, not the norm.

uselesstech 6y ago
If that were the case, you would think that Amazon would address the issues raised my employees instead of firing them. By firing them, they discourage others from coming forward so it’s not really possible to get a good picture of the situation.
- toasterlovin 6y ago
  Perhaps there's more to the story and we on the outside are in a really poor position to actually know what's going on?
  - x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
    So we are supposed to sit here and act like Amazon doesn't have a notorious rep in the street for how it treats it's employees, even it's software devs? And we are supposed to act like the US in general doesn't have a strong anti-labor tilt since Reagan in the 80s? You are begging the reader to throw out any knowledge of the company and the country it's in so that they can arrive to a conclusion of "We don't have all the facts!!!!". That's not going to be very effective.
    - toasterlovin 6y ago
      A default position against Amazon ignores some important considerations, in my opinion: 1. News outlets have a huge incentive to report on anti-Amazon facts, but little to no incentive to report on pro-Amazon facts. "Megacorp is imperfect, but mostly okay" is not a headline that generates clicks. 2. Amazon has a huge incentive to ensure that they comply with the law. Every labor lawyer in the country wants to take them to court and extract a settlement. And there are plenty of politicians that would love to make their career by bringing Amazon to heel.
      - klyrs 6y ago
        I dunno about you but my "default position" on Amazon fled circa y2k. Since then I've met numerous amazon employees and heard their stories, I've observed amazon/bezos's behavior in the public sphere, etc. Now my opinion on amazon is not "default" but "informed." Your implication that the media is an anti-amazon conspiracy is absurd. The truth about bad actors is not kind to them. That doesn't turn truthtelling into a conspiracy. I seem to remember some positive reporting on Amazon recently, when they promised higher wages and more PPE for warehouse employees -- how does that fit into a conspiracy?
      - uoaei 6y ago
        > News outlets have a huge incentive to report on anti-Amazon facts You are aware that Bezos owns one of the world's most influential news organizations, right? Also, no, they don't. There's more money in sponsored puff pieces about how Amazon is tackling this or that recent controversy.
  - three_seagrass 6y ago
    By that logic, wouldn't Vice President Tim Bray then be positioned to know more of that hypothetically hidden story?
    - jhwang5 6y ago
      He worked at AWS, not retail
      - three_seagrass 6y ago
        Seems like he is privy to more than just AWS as a vice president, no? FTA: >At that point I snapped. VPs shouldn’t go publicly rogue, so I escalated through the proper channels and by the book. I’m not at liberty to disclose those discussions, but I made many of the arguments appearing in this essay. I think I made them to the appropriate people.
  - uoaei 6y ago
    We don't have all the context but it's safe to say we have about 80% of it. End this solipsistic tripe. Or else drive down to your nearest fulfillment center and start interviewing folks.
    - toasterlovin 6y ago
      I have contact with the warehousing industry. Most workers are neither making $15/hr nor receiving any sort of benefits.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  Yep, it's the Streisand effect that Tim Bray talks about in the article.
- Aunche 6y ago
  How many activists are really get fired? It sounds like there are hundreds of protestors, but only a few people got fired. Should protesting making you immune to being fired?

uselesstech 6y ago

If that were the case, you would think that Amazon would address the issues raised my employees instead of firing them. By firing them, they discourage others from coming forward so it’s not really possible to get a good picture of the situation.

toasterlovin 6y ago
Perhaps there's more to the story and we on the outside are in a really poor position to actually know what's going on?
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  So we are supposed to sit here and act like Amazon doesn't have a notorious rep in the street for how it treats it's employees, even it's software devs? And we are supposed to act like the US in general doesn't have a strong anti-labor tilt since Reagan in the 80s? You are begging the reader to throw out any knowledge of the company and the country it's in so that they can arrive to a conclusion of "We don't have all the facts!!!!". That's not going to be very effective.
  - toasterlovin 6y ago
    A default position against Amazon ignores some important considerations, in my opinion: 1. News outlets have a huge incentive to report on anti-Amazon facts, but little to no incentive to report on pro-Amazon facts. "Megacorp is imperfect, but mostly okay" is not a headline that generates clicks. 2. Amazon has a huge incentive to ensure that they comply with the law. Every labor lawyer in the country wants to take them to court and extract a settlement. And there are plenty of politicians that would love to make their career by bringing Amazon to heel.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      I dunno about you but my "default position" on Amazon fled circa y2k. Since then I've met numerous amazon employees and heard their stories, I've observed amazon/bezos's behavior in the public sphere, etc. Now my opinion on amazon is not "default" but "informed." Your implication that the media is an anti-amazon conspiracy is absurd. The truth about bad actors is not kind to them. That doesn't turn truthtelling into a conspiracy. I seem to remember some positive reporting on Amazon recently, when they promised higher wages and more PPE for warehouse employees -- how does that fit into a conspiracy?
    - uoaei 6y ago
      > News outlets have a huge incentive to report on anti-Amazon facts You are aware that Bezos owns one of the world's most influential news organizations, right? Also, no, they don't. There's more money in sponsored puff pieces about how Amazon is tackling this or that recent controversy.
- three_seagrass 6y ago
  By that logic, wouldn't Vice President Tim Bray then be positioned to know more of that hypothetically hidden story?
  - jhwang5 6y ago
    He worked at AWS, not retail
    - three_seagrass 6y ago
      Seems like he is privy to more than just AWS as a vice president, no? FTA: >At that point I snapped. VPs shouldn’t go publicly rogue, so I escalated through the proper channels and by the book. I’m not at liberty to disclose those discussions, but I made many of the arguments appearing in this essay. I think I made them to the appropriate people.
- uoaei 6y ago
  We don't have all the context but it's safe to say we have about 80% of it. End this solipsistic tripe. Or else drive down to your nearest fulfillment center and start interviewing folks.
  - toasterlovin 6y ago
    I have contact with the warehousing industry. Most workers are neither making $15/hr nor receiving any sort of benefits.
three_seagrass 6y ago
Yep, it's the Streisand effect that Tim Bray talks about in the article.
Aunche 6y ago
How many activists are really get fired? It sounds like there are hundreds of protestors, but only a few people got fired. Should protesting making you immune to being fired?