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The NHS needs funding, not our "thanks". The Government's current drive to propagandise their ongoing failure to fund essential public service should not be to

The NHS needs funding, not our "thanks". The Government's current drive to propagandise their ongoing failure to fund essential public service should not be tolerated. (For those who are unaware, in the UK we are currently being asked by the powers that be to take part in a "clapping session" on the streets weekly).

FartyMcFarter 6y ago
It feels like a proto-dictatorship move to ask people to worship an arm of the government, instead of seeing it for what it is: a provider of a service that needs proper funding and management. There are definitely people in health services that deserve praise, but praising the institution in this way is a bit different...
netsharc 6y ago
I've been wondering how much they "exploited" the recently-turned-100 Captain who was walking up and down his garden 100 times to raise money for the NHS. He or his family probably came up with the idea themselves, but I wonder if some individuals working in the government helped it "go viral". The same government that's been slowly stripping the NHS, when suddenly, a free 100 million pounds (and counting) to spend! And a nice old man that the nation can cheer on. Feel good story, distraction, etc, etc. Another cynical look about the hero worship of the NHS is that heroes often die, if I were running a government that failed to supply PPE to doctors and nurses, I'd cheer on the idea of making them heroes because then their deaths would become something honourable and somewhat acceptable...
- simonh 6y ago
  >I wonder if some individuals working in the government helped it "go viral" He did the walk in support of NHS Charities Together, an umbrella organisation of independent charities that support the NHS, and their publicity team contacted the media.
- erk__ 6y ago
  You do know that the yearly budget of the NHS is around £140 billion. So the captain would only have collected enough for a few hours. But that does not matter as the money he gathers does not go to the state, but goes to a large number of charities which are connected to the NHS. https://www.nhscharitiestogether.co.uk/meet-our-members/ https://www.nhscharitiestogether.co.uk/meet-our-members/ Though I do agree that the NHS should be better funded.
- RobertKerans 6y ago
  The money goes to charities associated with the NHS, not the NHS itself. This isn't a subtle difference, it completely torpedoes everything in your comment.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    "completely torpedoes everything". From a man talking about subtleties. I had to look up if the charities came because of Tory austerity, they aren't. But well, please read this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/22/giving-nhs-charity-fundraising-coronavirus-state-taxes https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/22/giving... This is like saying donating to teachers so they can buy school supplies doesn't mean it's helping fund the school...
    - RobertKerans 6y ago
      Sorry, that was hyperbole. But I am fully aware of what the NHS associated charities are, I don't need to look them up or read about them. Yes, in some cases they have been abused. In some cases I'm sure some percentages of the money raised here will each cause small financial abuses by an administrator of a trust which has been one of the beneficiaries. And I live in the north of England, you don't have to explain what the Tories are like, what they've done. But not everything is a conspiracy. It's a common thing to donate money to NHS charities. This went viral for really obvious reasons. There's a bad all over the government response to the crisis, but hey, let's make up a conspiracy theory and focus on that instead -- people are idiots aren't they, look at the idiots buying into this whereas you're so smart for realising that it's a conspiracy.
DaveWM 6y ago
I meant this article as a "thank you" to the brave doctors and nurses putting in extra time and effort to look after everyone else. Regardless of the state of NHS funding, it's just basic human decency to say thank you to them. I didn't mean it as any kind of political statement.
- kitd 6y ago
  I see OP's attitude a lot on Reddit and (sadly) a few times here too. It seems common decency is a dirty word when there's political point scoring to be had. Rebranding it as "virtue signalling" is another one.
  - Ididntdothis 6y ago
    In the US I often see saying publicly “thanks” as a cheap (and cynical) alternative to actually funding things properly. So with me it leaves a bad taste if it’s not accompanied by a call for proper funding or other action to rectify things.
    - res0nat0r 6y ago
      I think this article sums it up nicely: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/i-work-grocery-store-dont-call-me-hero/610147/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/i-work-gro...
  - DanBC 6y ago
    "I cannot abide being lauded as a hero by politicians who allow my colleagues to die for want of proper PPE." https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/02/nhs-doctor-forget-medals-and-flypasts-what-we-want-is-proper-pay-and-ppe?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/02/nhs-doctor-f...
kitd 6y ago
The NHS needs funding, not our "thanks". I didn't realise it was either/or.
- iso1631 6y ago
  The UK continuously votes to reduce healthcare funding relative to the rest of the world, so it's either "no funding and thanks" or "no funding".
  - monoclechris 6y ago
    The UK has never reduced NHS funding in real terms year on year.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      Are you suggesting that one should only look at the absolute numbers? Staying at the previous year's funding is usually - in practice - a reduction for most welfare services.
      - monoclechris 6y ago
        I am suggesting we keep in line with reality and facts, nothing more, nothing less.
        jahaja 6y ago
        Yes, and facts is that freezing funding while costs rise is effectively a reduction in funding.
        iso1631 6y ago
        With aging populations and more expensive healthcare funding, health inflation is far higher. The only real way to compare is to create a healthcare inflation index on a per capita basis from a group of like countries and look at funding that way.
room271 6y ago
I appreciate the point, but surely both are possible!?
wastedhours 6y ago
You can simultaneously thank the NHS workers and not tolerate the government's actions. It's not just to "propagandise" - it's to show, for a brief moment, that we appreciate their effort. We can then go back 2 minutes later to hate the Tories as much as before. Having a clap in no way makes me think I've "done my bit for the NHS" any more than voting left each and every time.
PaulRobinson 6y ago
You seem to think you can't clap if you're annoyed. That's not true. My sister is on the frontline. She's just finished a bunch of night shifts in an ITU as a HCA so I'll text her later, and if it's anything like recent weeks she will be exhausted, scared and frustrated. She will be exhausted because there aren't enough staff. She will be scared because she is working with Covid-19 +ive patients and is a single parent - she notes on ITU that PPE supply is actually OK, it's when she gets shifts on general wards it becomes more of a lottery. She is frustrated because politics, economics and healthcare have collided in horrible ways in the last 25 years or so in the UK that has left us very much on the back foot in our ability to deal with a sudden emergency. She won't be alone in those feelings. There isn't a nurse or doctor in the country who doesn't experience those things in some measure at least some - if not most - of the time. The first time the clapping happened, she cried. It was recognition of thanks for the tiredness, fear and frustration that she and her colleagues go through. It's OK to be pissed off at the Tories AND clap. It's not mutually exclusive. The problem is when we are asked to be pissed off OR clap, and we choose to clap, and then trot down to the polling station and ask for "more of the same please!" We need to remember this at the ballot box. If you clap and you then vote for this shower of pillocks, well, you'll go to the grave aware of your hypocrisy, and let's just hope the NHS is still there to make it as painless as possible. This Thursday go out and clap. If you have kids, get them to paint a rainbow. And then vote when you get the chance.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
switch007 6y ago
The NHS worker opposite me would really, really like people not to clap, whistle or bang drums, because she's always asleep at that time due to her shifts...
iso1631 6y ago
Dare mention that and you'll be hounded out "stop talking politics"

FartyMcFarter 6y ago

It feels like a proto-dictatorship move to ask people to worship an arm of the government, instead of seeing it for what it is: a provider of a service that needs proper funding and management. There are definitely people in health services that deserve praise, but praising the institution in this way is a bit different...

netsharc 6y ago

I've been wondering how much they "exploited" the recently-turned-100 Captain who was walking up and down his garden 100 times to raise money for the NHS. He or his family probably came up with the idea themselves, but I wonder if some individuals working in the government helped it "go viral". The same government that's been slowly stripping the NHS, when suddenly, a free 100 million pounds (and counting) to spend! And a nice old man that the nation can cheer on. Feel good story, distraction, etc, etc. Another cynical look about the hero worship of the NHS is that heroes often die, if I were running a government that failed to supply PPE to doctors and nurses, I'd cheer on the idea of making them heroes because then their deaths would become something honourable and somewhat acceptable...

simonh 6y ago
>I wonder if some individuals working in the government helped it "go viral" He did the walk in support of NHS Charities Together, an umbrella organisation of independent charities that support the NHS, and their publicity team contacted the media.
erk__ 6y ago
You do know that the yearly budget of the NHS is around £140 billion. So the captain would only have collected enough for a few hours. But that does not matter as the money he gathers does not go to the state, but goes to a large number of charities which are connected to the NHS. https://www.nhscharitiestogether.co.uk/meet-our-members/ https://www.nhscharitiestogether.co.uk/meet-our-members/ Though I do agree that the NHS should be better funded.
RobertKerans 6y ago
The money goes to charities associated with the NHS, not the NHS itself. This isn't a subtle difference, it completely torpedoes everything in your comment.
- netsharc 6y ago
  "completely torpedoes everything". From a man talking about subtleties. I had to look up if the charities came because of Tory austerity, they aren't. But well, please read this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/22/giving-nhs-charity-fundraising-coronavirus-state-taxes https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/22/giving... This is like saying donating to teachers so they can buy school supplies doesn't mean it's helping fund the school...
  - RobertKerans 6y ago
    Sorry, that was hyperbole. But I am fully aware of what the NHS associated charities are, I don't need to look them up or read about them. Yes, in some cases they have been abused. In some cases I'm sure some percentages of the money raised here will each cause small financial abuses by an administrator of a trust which has been one of the beneficiaries. And I live in the north of England, you don't have to explain what the Tories are like, what they've done. But not everything is a conspiracy. It's a common thing to donate money to NHS charities. This went viral for really obvious reasons. There's a bad all over the government response to the crisis, but hey, let's make up a conspiracy theory and focus on that instead -- people are idiots aren't they, look at the idiots buying into this whereas you're so smart for realising that it's a conspiracy.

DaveWM 6y ago

I meant this article as a "thank you" to the brave doctors and nurses putting in extra time and effort to look after everyone else. Regardless of the state of NHS funding, it's just basic human decency to say thank you to them. I didn't mean it as any kind of political statement.

kitd 6y ago
I see OP's attitude a lot on Reddit and (sadly) a few times here too. It seems common decency is a dirty word when there's political point scoring to be had. Rebranding it as "virtue signalling" is another one.
- Ididntdothis 6y ago
  In the US I often see saying publicly “thanks” as a cheap (and cynical) alternative to actually funding things properly. So with me it leaves a bad taste if it’s not accompanied by a call for proper funding or other action to rectify things.
  - res0nat0r 6y ago
    I think this article sums it up nicely: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/i-work-grocery-store-dont-call-me-hero/610147/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/i-work-gro...
- DanBC 6y ago
  "I cannot abide being lauded as a hero by politicians who allow my colleagues to die for want of proper PPE." https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/02/nhs-doctor-forget-medals-and-flypasts-what-we-want-is-proper-pay-and-ppe?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/02/nhs-doctor-f...

kitd 6y ago

The NHS needs funding, not our "thanks". I didn't realise it was either/or.

iso1631 6y ago
The UK continuously votes to reduce healthcare funding relative to the rest of the world, so it's either "no funding and thanks" or "no funding".
- monoclechris 6y ago
  The UK has never reduced NHS funding in real terms year on year.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    Are you suggesting that one should only look at the absolute numbers? Staying at the previous year's funding is usually - in practice - a reduction for most welfare services.
    - monoclechris 6y ago
      I am suggesting we keep in line with reality and facts, nothing more, nothing less.
      - jahaja 6y ago
        Yes, and facts is that freezing funding while costs rise is effectively a reduction in funding.
        iso1631 6y ago
        With aging populations and more expensive healthcare funding, health inflation is far higher. The only real way to compare is to create a healthcare inflation index on a per capita basis from a group of like countries and look at funding that way.

room271 6y ago

I appreciate the point, but surely both are possible!?

wastedhours 6y ago

You can simultaneously thank the NHS workers and not tolerate the government's actions. It's not just to "propagandise" - it's to show, for a brief moment, that we appreciate their effort. We can then go back 2 minutes later to hate the Tories as much as before. Having a clap in no way makes me think I've "done my bit for the NHS" any more than voting left each and every time.

PaulRobinson 6y ago

You seem to think you can't clap if you're annoyed. That's not true. My sister is on the frontline. She's just finished a bunch of night shifts in an ITU as a HCA so I'll text her later, and if it's anything like recent weeks she will be exhausted, scared and frustrated. She will be exhausted because there aren't enough staff. She will be scared because she is working with Covid-19 +ive patients and is a single parent - she notes on ITU that PPE supply is actually OK, it's when she gets shifts on general wards it becomes more of a lottery. She is frustrated because politics, economics and healthcare have collided in horrible ways in the last 25 years or so in the UK that has left us very much on the back foot in our ability to deal with a sudden emergency. She won't be alone in those feelings. There isn't a nurse or doctor in the country who doesn't experience those things in some measure at least some - if not most - of the time. The first time the clapping happened, she cried. It was recognition of thanks for the tiredness, fear and frustration that she and her colleagues go through. It's OK to be pissed off at the Tories AND clap. It's not mutually exclusive. The problem is when we are asked to be pissed off OR clap, and we choose to clap, and then trot down to the polling station and ask for "more of the same please!" We need to remember this at the ballot box. If you clap and you then vote for this shower of pillocks, well, you'll go to the grave aware of your hypocrisy, and let's just hope the NHS is still there to make it as painless as possible. This Thursday go out and clap. If you have kids, get them to paint a rainbow. And then vote when you get the chance.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

switch007 6y ago

The NHS worker opposite me would really, really like people not to clap, whistle or bang drums, because she's always asleep at that time due to her shifts...

iso1631 6y ago

Dare mention that and you'll be hounded out "stop talking politics"