3 ms·

> when the restaurant is having a bad night A "bad night" because it was hit by a tornado. Your wording implies the universities did something wrong. It's not

> when the restaurant is having a bad night A "bad night" because it was hit by a tornado. Your wording implies the universities did something wrong. It's not like they could have done anything differently. They weren't responsible for the pandemic and they were legally obligated to shut down. > I'd say the institution should do at least something to make you whole I'd say it is unreasonable. They're not asking for a generic "something to make them whole". They want all the benefits plus a healthy refund. I don't know what the legal basis for their argument would be. Almost certainly they have lawyers who expect bad publicity to force universities to pay. That kind of rubs me the wrong way. Disclosure: I work at a university.

leetcrew 7y ago
I have no idea whether there's a legal basis for the argument, I'm just stating my opinion on what would be a fair outcome. > They want all the benefits plus a healthy refund. I don't think this is an accurate portrayal of the situation, unless you think the entire value of a college education is instruction, grading, and the piece of paper at the end. the school I went to was very much like this: I went to class, got good grades, graduated, and got a good job. no fun, no frills, just business. it was pretty cheap though, so I can't say I didn't get my money's worth. I don't think people pay $60k a year for the "just business" experience. if they're not walking around the beautiful campus, going to events, or using expensive science equipment, they're not getting their money's worth anymore. online class is a sad substitute for this experience.
- bachmeier 7y ago
  There's no doubt that the on campus experience is valuable. "all the benefits" was a bad choice of words. Maybe a better way to say it is that they want to choose which parts they get to pay for (the credits, the material, online interaction with the instructor, grading, homework, exams) but then be refunded for other parts related to the on campus experience. I'd say that's reasonable if and only if the university saved money as a result. Not only did they not save money, it cost them more money to shift formats. I want to reiterate that I'm not opposed to a refund, but I do oppose the refund they're asking for.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    ultimately this is an argument about who gets to eat a shit sandwich that isn't really the fault of anyone involved. personally, I'm a bit more sympathetic to the students than the large institution, but I can understand your perspective. I certainly don't want schools to go under from refunding tuition. as I understand it, there's a certain amount of "funny money" going on with private institutions. the actual cost of a year of school doesn't reconcile with tuition receipts; it gets supplemented with donations, state funds, and returns on the endowment. this makes it sort of hard to put a dollar value on what a fair tuition refund would look like.
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    > I'd say that's reasonable if and only if the university saved money as a result. Not only did they not save money, it cost them more money to shift formats. That would be part of the reason universities are getting money from the government through this, as compensation for their efforts, and for taking care of students. For all that has cost the school, they've also got a lot less costs (residential utilities, food, campus entertainment). And business continuity would behoove them to have had _some_ contingency in place. Alas, my partner, who works in university administration, has seen just how little many universities have had, if any, for having to shift to remote learning, partially or completely.
- red_admiral 7y ago
  Colleges who charge $60k a year tend to advertise the student experience and everything that's not "just business" quite a lot to prospective applicants.
FireBeyond 7y ago
> They want all the benefits plus a healthy refund. Is the benefit the college credit (which you seem to imply), or the education? Because they're not getting the same education. Your argument seems to be "well they'll still get credit, so what's the problem?".

leetcrew 7y ago

I have no idea whether there's a legal basis for the argument, I'm just stating my opinion on what would be a fair outcome. > They want all the benefits plus a healthy refund. I don't think this is an accurate portrayal of the situation, unless you think the entire value of a college education is instruction, grading, and the piece of paper at the end. the school I went to was very much like this: I went to class, got good grades, graduated, and got a good job. no fun, no frills, just business. it was pretty cheap though, so I can't say I didn't get my money's worth. I don't think people pay $60k a year for the "just business" experience. if they're not walking around the beautiful campus, going to events, or using expensive science equipment, they're not getting their money's worth anymore. online class is a sad substitute for this experience.

bachmeier 7y ago
There's no doubt that the on campus experience is valuable. "all the benefits" was a bad choice of words. Maybe a better way to say it is that they want to choose which parts they get to pay for (the credits, the material, online interaction with the instructor, grading, homework, exams) but then be refunded for other parts related to the on campus experience. I'd say that's reasonable if and only if the university saved money as a result. Not only did they not save money, it cost them more money to shift formats. I want to reiterate that I'm not opposed to a refund, but I do oppose the refund they're asking for.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  ultimately this is an argument about who gets to eat a shit sandwich that isn't really the fault of anyone involved. personally, I'm a bit more sympathetic to the students than the large institution, but I can understand your perspective. I certainly don't want schools to go under from refunding tuition. as I understand it, there's a certain amount of "funny money" going on with private institutions. the actual cost of a year of school doesn't reconcile with tuition receipts; it gets supplemented with donations, state funds, and returns on the endowment. this makes it sort of hard to put a dollar value on what a fair tuition refund would look like.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  > I'd say that's reasonable if and only if the university saved money as a result. Not only did they not save money, it cost them more money to shift formats. That would be part of the reason universities are getting money from the government through this, as compensation for their efforts, and for taking care of students. For all that has cost the school, they've also got a lot less costs (residential utilities, food, campus entertainment). And business continuity would behoove them to have had _some_ contingency in place. Alas, my partner, who works in university administration, has seen just how little many universities have had, if any, for having to shift to remote learning, partially or completely.
red_admiral 7y ago
Colleges who charge $60k a year tend to advertise the student experience and everything that's not "just business" quite a lot to prospective applicants.

FireBeyond 7y ago

> They want all the benefits plus a healthy refund. Is the benefit the college credit (which you seem to imply), or the education? Because they're not getting the same education. Your argument seems to be "well they'll still get credit, so what's the problem?".