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If you are very idealistic I would recommend working for a smaller company that aligns with your values. It is naive to join a company like Amazon or Google and

If you are very idealistic I would recommend working for a smaller company that aligns with your values. It is naive to join a company like Amazon or Google and imagine it is some progressive utopia. These are mega corps, and in my imagination I see them like The Empire from Star Wars, and you will be a storm trooper on the death star - just one worker among many. You will be on the winning team, well compensated, and destroying your competition. But don't pretend you aren't employee #517384 even if you are a higher-ranking manager. Darth Vader will still strangle you if you get in his way. All that being said, I would still consider working for the empire, just as in the past I can envision myself working for a major European military power or the Dutch East India Company, or like ancestors of mine who worked for Standard Oil and AT&T. Amazon and Google are the big corporate powers of today and your silly blog posts about unions won't stop them.

elliekelly 7y ago
Perhaps if there were more people like Tim Bray the Death Star might be a little more progressive and might not be the de facto “winning team”.
- katmannthree 7y ago
  Just like with politics, those people have a way of letting their personal ethics select them out of the organization they were hoping to change.
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    Yes and the “noisy exit” is typically the strategy of last resort. Tim Bray is a smart guy, a respected leader, and a proven problem-solver. Imagine all of the other avenues to effect change that he exhausted before deciding to write this blog.
  - toyg 7y ago
    "You know, any contractor willing to work on that Death Star knew the risks. If they were killed, it was their own fault. A roofer listens to this... (taps his heart) not his wallet." - Clerks, 1994
ryanmcbride 7y ago
"...I can envision myself working for a major European military power..." Hmmm
- seibelj 7y ago
  Prussian military, British military, French military. I am speaking about middle ages to modern era. A lot of management and scientific progress happened there, and it was a way for the lower classes to rise in a more meritocratic way. It was also a mechanism to learn sailing skills so you could become a trading merchant.
  - goldenkey 7y ago
    So basically, you are willing to sell your morals for scientific progress in the name of helping people? You sound conflicted.
    - seibelj 7y ago
      I don't think it is possible to live your life entirely pure based on your morals. This is a philosophical question. It is possible to work for Amazon today or the large corporation of the past, and not be entirely morally OK with the situation. Many aspects of life are the same, unless you are a monk.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        "We can have all the morals, we can afford." - my old minister
      - goldenkey 7y ago
        Of course it is. You just are arguing that morals need to allow for doing shitty things for great things in the end. Not very new of an idea...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
switch007 7y ago
In my experience, small companies are fine until the point they get board members who have run bigger companies. Which is quite early on. The only answer is to run your own company, with all the trade-offs that entails.
Aunche 7y ago
Working for a small company just moves the problem to a place that's more difficult to see. If Tim was a VP at a boutique cloud provider, inevitably, some of their customers treat their employees even worse than Amazon.
ericzawo 7y ago
I read "your silly blog posts about unions won't stop them" in Chancellor Palpatine voice, fwiw. (Happy may 4th)
brenden2 7y ago
Blog posts about unions won't stop them, but actual unionization will.
d33lio 7y ago
I'm not that idealistic and I still found my time at Amazon overwhelmingly distasteful. The amount of shielding / work to just appear productive / effective at multiple levels of both tech and management was moronic. I'd work for a big tech company again but wow was my time at amazon something I regret spending waking hours doing.

elliekelly 7y ago

Perhaps if there were more people like Tim Bray the Death Star might be a little more progressive and might not be the de facto “winning team”.

katmannthree 7y ago
Just like with politics, those people have a way of letting their personal ethics select them out of the organization they were hoping to change.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  Yes and the “noisy exit” is typically the strategy of last resort. Tim Bray is a smart guy, a respected leader, and a proven problem-solver. Imagine all of the other avenues to effect change that he exhausted before deciding to write this blog.
- toyg 7y ago
  "You know, any contractor willing to work on that Death Star knew the risks. If they were killed, it was their own fault. A roofer listens to this... (taps his heart) not his wallet." - Clerks, 1994

ryanmcbride 7y ago

"...I can envision myself working for a major European military power..." Hmmm

seibelj 7y ago
Prussian military, British military, French military. I am speaking about middle ages to modern era. A lot of management and scientific progress happened there, and it was a way for the lower classes to rise in a more meritocratic way. It was also a mechanism to learn sailing skills so you could become a trading merchant.
- goldenkey 7y ago
  So basically, you are willing to sell your morals for scientific progress in the name of helping people? You sound conflicted.
  - seibelj 7y ago
    I don't think it is possible to live your life entirely pure based on your morals. This is a philosophical question. It is possible to work for Amazon today or the large corporation of the past, and not be entirely morally OK with the situation. Many aspects of life are the same, unless you are a monk.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      "We can have all the morals, we can afford." - my old minister
    - goldenkey 7y ago
      Of course it is. You just are arguing that morals need to allow for doing shitty things for great things in the end. Not very new of an idea...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

switch007 7y ago

In my experience, small companies are fine until the point they get board members who have run bigger companies. Which is quite early on. The only answer is to run your own company, with all the trade-offs that entails.

Aunche 7y ago

Working for a small company just moves the problem to a place that's more difficult to see. If Tim was a VP at a boutique cloud provider, inevitably, some of their customers treat their employees even worse than Amazon.

ericzawo 7y ago

I read "your silly blog posts about unions won't stop them" in Chancellor Palpatine voice, fwiw. (Happy may 4th)

brenden2 7y ago

Blog posts about unions won't stop them, but actual unionization will.

d33lio 7y ago

I'm not that idealistic and I still found my time at Amazon overwhelmingly distasteful. The amount of shielding / work to just appear productive / effective at multiple levels of both tech and management was moronic. I'd work for a big tech company again but wow was my time at amazon something I regret spending waking hours doing.