4 ms·

2399$ 2999$ (EDIT: see replies) in the US, and.... 3924$ for the same model if you buy it in Europe (3629 EUR). That's a bit outrageous. I still have a Mac

~~2399$~~ 2999$ (EDIT: see replies) in the US, and.... 3924$ for the same model if you buy it in Europe (3629 EUR). That's a bit outrageous. I still have a Macbook Air 2013, and have been looking for an upgrade for like 5 years, but I was not willing to pay 4k for a laptop with a worse keyboard, a worse power plug, an OS that in 2020 still doesn't have any kind of windows tiling capabilities and quite poor virtual desktops support, a useless touchbar, no wifi6, and the worst webcam ever made. Selling it at twice the price that in the US doesn't help. I can pay for a plane ticket, and still get it cheaper there. Also, for a company that markets their laptops as having great displays, its quite ironic that their OS still doesn't support any kind of window tiling to use them efficiently in 2020. The display isn't micro-LED either, so it is instantaneously outdated, and well... the retina display doesn't help you see your macbook-using coworkers any better because their webcams have a resolution of 1x1 pixels.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Sounds like a good business opportunity. What's stopping me from buying them all up at the Apple store and selling them to overseas customers?
- ekvilibrist 6y ago
  Different keyboards for starters?
  - fluffything 6y ago
    American layout actually adds value to the laptop in Europe. You can change the layout in the apple store when buying it here, but that adds 4 weeks to the delivery time..
  - IAmEveryone 6y ago
    in Europe, I can chose whatever keyboard I want, and I would think it's the same for the US store. I've configure both MacBooks I bought in the last decade with English keyboards because it's the only layout where {} and [] don't seem like a cruel joke by language designers.
- PedroBatista 6y ago
  VAT
- fluffything 6y ago
  Ehm, customs? VAT import taxes? As an individual, I can just by it in the US for personal use, and carry it over. But if you intent to transporting them for selling them, the story is very different.
  - IAmEveryone 6y ago
    Legally, you are required to pay VAT and import duty when buying in the US and importing it, even for personal use. Chances are, you aren't checked. But if you are, having the original packaging or charger will be noticed by customs. They might even have data to determine country of origin from a serial number, or notice that it's a version that wasn't available when you left for the US etc. And if they ask, the burden of proof is yours to show you bought it in the EU.
    - fluffything 6y ago
      How long does one need to stay in the US for that not to hold ? I lived there for one year, and bought a lot of stuff in the US for personal use (like clothes). When I moved back to Europe, I just moved everything with me without paying any VAT. I was worried that they would make me pay VAT from socks and underwear to laptop, phone, and everything. Asked about it, and was told that I didn't had to pay anything.
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        Six months. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/calculation-customs-duties/what-is-common-customs-tariff/duty-relief_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/calculation-c... (the linked PDF).
    - ska 6y ago
      This is not EU specific, duty is typically due on consumer good when you move them between countries if you haven't owned them long enough. It's not always enforced or enforceable of course, but it's there. See for example people buying cars on either side of the US and Canada border for use on the other side.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- masklinn 6y ago
  > What's stopping me from buying them all up at the Apple store and selling them to overseas customers? Import duties and VAT. VAT accounts for much of the price difference, OP didn't explain which Europe they're talking about, but assuming a 20% VAT a 2999 machine costs $3598.8 to the end-user. Means you're working with a 325.2 price difference, which doesn't even cover import duties. So pretty much as ever, if you're round-tripping through the US, picking up an MBP there is nice. It does not however make for a business.
  - fluffything 6y ago
    > So pretty much as ever, if you're round-tripping to the US, picking up an MBP there is nice. Just keep in mind that if you stay in the US for less than 6 months, you should be paying VAT on it on your way back (see other comments). Otherwise this probably counts as tax evasion, which comes with pretty hefty fines in some EU countries.
saddlerustle 6y ago
The price $2999 in the US. There's no markup here, Apple's EU pricing just includes 20% VAT ($600) and implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law.
- fluffything 6y ago
  Thanks for the correction, 2399$ was the price of the comparable Dell modell. The VAT and AppleCare makes sense.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- dewey 6y ago
  > implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law I wouldn't say AppleCare is the same as having the extended warrenty to obey the EU consumer law. AppleCare includes a bunch of things that are outside of normal "warrenty" coverage.
  - ska 6y ago
    While this is probably true, I don't think it would be entirely fair to beat apple up for not having an EU only warranty program tuned to the minimal that is required.
  - pfranz 6y ago
    I'd love for someone to chime in with specific details. I looked quickly at the French and US sites to compare. France does offer AppleCare+ for 299,00 € on a random MacBook I chose. The US page is pretty clear that it extends a 1-year hardware warranty to 3-years and extends 90 days of technical support. In recent years they seem to focus more on accidental damage (with an additional per-incident fee). The French website is more hand-wavy around improved hardware warranty. It also mentions the tech support, but the value seems to be the accidental damage. The accidental damage math in the US is a tough one for me. $300 for AppleCare+ and $50 per incident goes a long way towards paying outright for a repair or buying a new laptop. The hardware warranties seem to be significantly better in Europe and historically the biggest value-add in the US. AppleCare+ just seems a lot less useful in Europe.
grecy 6y ago
For at least 20 years it's been cheaper to buy a round trip ticket to the USA and a macbook pro than it is to just buy one in Australia.
- ska 6y ago
  Isn't this just because you (illegally) fail to declare it for duty purposes? If so it wouldn't have much to do with apple, no?
saagarjha 6y ago
> its quite ironic that their OS still doesn't support any kind of window tiling to use them efficiently in 2020 Luckily, the accessibility API make this quite possible to do if you're one of the people that can't work without it. (Do keep in mind that note everyone uses tiling to work "efficiently".) > The display isn't micro-LED either, so it is instantaneously outdated What? How many computers actually ship with microLED today? > the retina display doesn't help you see your macbook-using coworkers any better because their webcams have a resolution of 1x1 pixels Even with the current climate, reading text and looking at images in retina resolution is a huge part of most people's jobs. If you haven't tried a Retina Display, I suggest you do: it's quite nice.

~~2399$~~ 2999$ (EDIT: see replies) in the US, and.... 3924$ for the same model if you buy it in Europe (3629 EUR). That's a bit outrageous. I still have a Mac

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Sounds like a good business opportunity. What's stopping me from buying them all up at the Apple store and selling them to overseas customers?

ekvilibrist 6y ago
Different keyboards for starters?
- fluffything 6y ago
  American layout actually adds value to the laptop in Europe. You can change the layout in the apple store when buying it here, but that adds 4 weeks to the delivery time..
- IAmEveryone 6y ago
  in Europe, I can chose whatever keyboard I want, and I would think it's the same for the US store. I've configure both MacBooks I bought in the last decade with English keyboards because it's the only layout where {} and [] don't seem like a cruel joke by language designers.
PedroBatista 6y ago
VAT
fluffything 6y ago
Ehm, customs? VAT import taxes? As an individual, I can just by it in the US for personal use, and carry it over. But if you intent to transporting them for selling them, the story is very different.
- IAmEveryone 6y ago
  Legally, you are required to pay VAT and import duty when buying in the US and importing it, even for personal use. Chances are, you aren't checked. But if you are, having the original packaging or charger will be noticed by customs. They might even have data to determine country of origin from a serial number, or notice that it's a version that wasn't available when you left for the US etc. And if they ask, the burden of proof is yours to show you bought it in the EU.
  - fluffything 6y ago
    How long does one need to stay in the US for that not to hold ? I lived there for one year, and bought a lot of stuff in the US for personal use (like clothes). When I moved back to Europe, I just moved everything with me without paying any VAT. I was worried that they would make me pay VAT from socks and underwear to laptop, phone, and everything. Asked about it, and was told that I didn't had to pay anything.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      Six months. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/calculation-customs-duties/what-is-common-customs-tariff/duty-relief_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/calculation-c... (the linked PDF).
  - ska 6y ago
    This is not EU specific, duty is typically due on consumer good when you move them between countries if you haven't owned them long enough. It's not always enforced or enforceable of course, but it's there. See for example people buying cars on either side of the US and Canada border for use on the other side.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
masklinn 6y ago
> What's stopping me from buying them all up at the Apple store and selling them to overseas customers? Import duties and VAT. VAT accounts for much of the price difference, OP didn't explain which Europe they're talking about, but assuming a 20% VAT a 2999 machine costs $3598.8 to the end-user. Means you're working with a 325.2 price difference, which doesn't even cover import duties. So pretty much as ever, if you're round-tripping through the US, picking up an MBP there is nice. It does not however make for a business.
- fluffything 6y ago
  > So pretty much as ever, if you're round-tripping to the US, picking up an MBP there is nice. Just keep in mind that if you stay in the US for less than 6 months, you should be paying VAT on it on your way back (see other comments). Otherwise this probably counts as tax evasion, which comes with pretty hefty fines in some EU countries.

saddlerustle 6y ago

The price $2999 in the US. There's no markup here, Apple's EU pricing just includes 20% VAT ($600) and implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law.

fluffything 6y ago
Thanks for the correction, 2399$ was the price of the comparable Dell modell. The VAT and AppleCare makes sense.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dewey 6y ago
> implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law I wouldn't say AppleCare is the same as having the extended warrenty to obey the EU consumer law. AppleCare includes a bunch of things that are outside of normal "warrenty" coverage.
- ska 6y ago
  While this is probably true, I don't think it would be entirely fair to beat apple up for not having an EU only warranty program tuned to the minimal that is required.
- pfranz 6y ago
  I'd love for someone to chime in with specific details. I looked quickly at the French and US sites to compare. France does offer AppleCare+ for 299,00 € on a random MacBook I chose. The US page is pretty clear that it extends a 1-year hardware warranty to 3-years and extends 90 days of technical support. In recent years they seem to focus more on accidental damage (with an additional per-incident fee). The French website is more hand-wavy around improved hardware warranty. It also mentions the tech support, but the value seems to be the accidental damage. The accidental damage math in the US is a tough one for me. $300 for AppleCare+ and $50 per incident goes a long way towards paying outright for a repair or buying a new laptop. The hardware warranties seem to be significantly better in Europe and historically the biggest value-add in the US. AppleCare+ just seems a lot less useful in Europe.

grecy 6y ago

For at least 20 years it's been cheaper to buy a round trip ticket to the USA and a macbook pro than it is to just buy one in Australia.

ska 6y ago
Isn't this just because you (illegally) fail to declare it for duty purposes? If so it wouldn't have much to do with apple, no?

saagarjha 6y ago

> its quite ironic that their OS still doesn't support any kind of window tiling to use them efficiently in 2020 Luckily, the accessibility API make this quite possible to do if you're one of the people that can't work without it. (Do keep in mind that note everyone uses tiling to work "efficiently".) > The display isn't micro-LED either, so it is instantaneously outdated What? How many computers actually ship with microLED today? > the retina display doesn't help you see your macbook-using coworkers any better because their webcams have a resolution of 1x1 pixels Even with the current climate, reading text and looking at images in retina resolution is a huge part of most people's jobs. If you haven't tried a Retina Display, I suggest you do: it's quite nice.