4 ms·

> There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. I'd suggest working with or managing a

> There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. I'd suggest working with or managing a place with low-skilled people. They of course aren't all like that but it seems it attracts low-motivation, low-effort, or low-caring. I can only provide 2 anecdotes, but I can see why people get treated this way after time. I highly doubt there are many people that just start their management role in a hostile, suspicion, condescension kind of way. Normally it takes something repeated over time to build up those kinds of traits of dealing with something In college I used to work for RPS (they got bought by Fedex or UPS, I forget) sorting packages. To get the job you had to lift up to 50lbs and memorize the first 2 digits of the zip code (just the region so it was like 20-30 numbers) and you'd stand in front of a big chute and sort boxes onto 1 of 3 conveyors. The amount of anger people would take out on other's boxes was insane. Kicking, punching(??), throwing over the ledge (we were like 3 floors up), or just outright stamping of boxes was nuts. After working there I learned what it means to package something well as I could not count on any package of mine being treated with respect. The other anecdote are my wife's pharmacy techs she has to manage. Some of them will bitch and moan if they have to remake a drug, sometimes outright REFUSE to make a drug if it means they have to gown back up and go back into the clean room. They will disappear for an hour after delivering a drug (up a few floors). They will take well over an hour for lunch breaks. It is a very maddening situation because all of these actions means the kids don't get what they need on time.

ianleeclark 6y ago
> I'd suggest working with or managing a place with low-skilled people. They of course aren't all like that but it seems it attracts low-motivation, low-effort, or low-caring Pay low wage, get low motivation. No one's going to bust their ass over a mcgriddle for minimum wage.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Give an inch and they take a mile. You could pay a McDonalds worker all you like and he'll still just try to get away with doing less work.
  - ianleeclark 6y ago
    It's good were on the same page: your employees will be motivated to further their work-related skills and efficiency, thus doing less work. My deployment process at work used to require a ton of work, but I spent a few afternoons to automate it and now I get to do much less work.
    - globular-toast 6y ago
      > My deployment process at work used to require a ton of work, but I spent a few afternoons to automate it and now I get to do much less work. Clearly you're just like the majority of HN readership: living in a bubble a million miles away from what is reality for very large swathes of the population. Do you truthfully believe that someone flipping burgers in Burger King is capable of inventing machines and automating processes, but they refuse to do it because they don't get paid enough? Do you not see how absurd that sounds?
      - ianleeclark 6y ago
        No, but I don't think your response warranted anything serious. You said that any mcdonalds worker is inherently lazy, so I sidestepped that ridiculous sentiment. Also it's hilarious that you, the guy out there roasting all minimum wage workers, is somehow connected to the average working man.
    - dunnevens 6y ago
      > Do you not see how absurd that sounds? Not absurd at all. The people in the front lines understand the nature of their work better than anyone. When the engineers and the front line workers can actually communicate, and the workers feel like they're being heard, then great things can happen. Not only can productivity go up from making processes more efficient, but the hard-working front line people can feel a certain amount of ownership in their positions. Which will contribute to making them even better. I've seen this in person. Once worked for a teleco's internal training department. We somehow ended up making quick access utilities for the call center desktops. When we first deployed the tool, it rarely got used. This was because we made assumptions about what they needed. So we ended up talking to the call center reps. The people stuck dealing with the front line calls all day. They had very clear ideas about what they needed and what we should do. We listened. Followed their ideas. Had them give further feedback on the betas. And it ended up probably saving the company many millions per year in terms of efficiency gains. Plus it was a huge morale boost. These people finally got someone to listen to them and helped implement changes that made their job easier. Which gave them a sense of ownership and pride. And upped employee retention.
- mtrower 6y ago
  I sure did. Harder than I worked at some better paying jobs, for sure. Wage itself does not seem to be the determining factor in motivation. I'd say it's more about barriers to entry and the work environment itself.
  - qqssccfftt 6y ago
    You're a chump lol
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Pay higher wages and your customers go somewhere else to save a dollar. Some businesses don’t have the luxury of customers that will pay more than the lowest prices.
- dionidium 6y ago
  > No one's going to bust their ass over a mcgriddle for minimum wage. I've always done what I agreed to do at every job I worked. And I've had some pretty awful jobs. I'm not a hero. Doing what you've agreed to do doesn't make you a hero. It's the minimum requirement if you want to call yourself an honest person whose word means literally anything at all. Don't do that for anybody else. Do it for yourself.
- theduder99 6y ago
  I busted my butt as a 16 y.o. minimum wage worker, didn't you?
AlexandrB 6y ago
> I'd suggest working with or managing a place with low-skilled people. They of course aren't all like that but it seems it attracts low-motivation, low-effort, or low-caring. As often as not, this is a failure of management. Of course no manager wants to admit to this. A great example is the turnaround at the NUMMI GM plant after drastic changes to the manufacturing process[1]. The same employees going from drinking on the job and creating tons of defects to a model of efficient manufacturing in North America. [1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi-2010 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi-2010

ianleeclark 6y ago

> I'd suggest working with or managing a place with low-skilled people. They of course aren't all like that but it seems it attracts low-motivation, low-effort, or low-caring Pay low wage, get low motivation. No one's going to bust their ass over a mcgriddle for minimum wage.

globular-toast 6y ago
Give an inch and they take a mile. You could pay a McDonalds worker all you like and he'll still just try to get away with doing less work.
- ianleeclark 6y ago
  It's good were on the same page: your employees will be motivated to further their work-related skills and efficiency, thus doing less work. My deployment process at work used to require a ton of work, but I spent a few afternoons to automate it and now I get to do much less work.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    > My deployment process at work used to require a ton of work, but I spent a few afternoons to automate it and now I get to do much less work. Clearly you're just like the majority of HN readership: living in a bubble a million miles away from what is reality for very large swathes of the population. Do you truthfully believe that someone flipping burgers in Burger King is capable of inventing machines and automating processes, but they refuse to do it because they don't get paid enough? Do you not see how absurd that sounds?
    - ianleeclark 6y ago
      No, but I don't think your response warranted anything serious. You said that any mcdonalds worker is inherently lazy, so I sidestepped that ridiculous sentiment. Also it's hilarious that you, the guy out there roasting all minimum wage workers, is somehow connected to the average working man.
  - dunnevens 6y ago
    > Do you not see how absurd that sounds? Not absurd at all. The people in the front lines understand the nature of their work better than anyone. When the engineers and the front line workers can actually communicate, and the workers feel like they're being heard, then great things can happen. Not only can productivity go up from making processes more efficient, but the hard-working front line people can feel a certain amount of ownership in their positions. Which will contribute to making them even better. I've seen this in person. Once worked for a teleco's internal training department. We somehow ended up making quick access utilities for the call center desktops. When we first deployed the tool, it rarely got used. This was because we made assumptions about what they needed. So we ended up talking to the call center reps. The people stuck dealing with the front line calls all day. They had very clear ideas about what they needed and what we should do. We listened. Followed their ideas. Had them give further feedback on the betas. And it ended up probably saving the company many millions per year in terms of efficiency gains. Plus it was a huge morale boost. These people finally got someone to listen to them and helped implement changes that made their job easier. Which gave them a sense of ownership and pride. And upped employee retention.
mtrower 6y ago
I sure did. Harder than I worked at some better paying jobs, for sure. Wage itself does not seem to be the determining factor in motivation. I'd say it's more about barriers to entry and the work environment itself.
- qqssccfftt 6y ago
  You're a chump lol
lotsofpulp 6y ago
Pay higher wages and your customers go somewhere else to save a dollar. Some businesses don’t have the luxury of customers that will pay more than the lowest prices.
dionidium 6y ago
> No one's going to bust their ass over a mcgriddle for minimum wage. I've always done what I agreed to do at every job I worked. And I've had some pretty awful jobs. I'm not a hero. Doing what you've agreed to do doesn't make you a hero. It's the minimum requirement if you want to call yourself an honest person whose word means literally anything at all. Don't do that for anybody else. Do it for yourself.
theduder99 6y ago
I busted my butt as a 16 y.o. minimum wage worker, didn't you?

AlexandrB 6y ago

> I'd suggest working with or managing a place with low-skilled people. They of course aren't all like that but it seems it attracts low-motivation, low-effort, or low-caring. As often as not, this is a failure of management. Of course no manager wants to admit to this. A great example is the turnaround at the NUMMI GM plant after drastic changes to the manufacturing process[1]. The same employees going from drinking on the job and creating tons of defects to a model of efficient manufacturing in North America. [1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi-2010 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi-2010