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> SystemD feels like the new grad hire who decided the first thing the would do after joining — the opening power play — is to convince the PHB we should rewrit

> SystemD feels like the new grad hire who decided the first thing the would do after joining — the opening power play — is to convince the PHB we should rewrite everything in Haskell. I've seen this scenario played out, and it always fails. The product never ships, of ships in such a bad shape the users have a terrible user experience. That's not what happened with systemd. It shipped. And after a few iterations, it actually provided a better user experience. I don't know about sysadmins, but as a simple end user of Ubuntu, systemd is the best user experience I ever had for what matters to me: setuping my services. It's quite easy to create your unit files, declare service dependencies, stop, restart, and so on. It's declarative, conf is reasonably straighforward to read an understand, documentation is there, and my system boot is stable on laptop and on my servers. Maybe for "advanced case X", there is problem. Apparently, a lot of power users say there is. But I also know the FOSS community has some people advocating purity over practicality, don't care much about the people with less skills than them, don't understand user friendliness or will fight for their ego. So I have no way to be sure if the problem is real, or just another free software drama. But at this point I don't care: for the average Joe like me, it's great, and I'm very happy it has been chosen by Centos and Debian as the default. Apparently nobody in the entire history of init system have managed to provide something decent for, you know, initializing the system. I never heard a herd of devs claiming that one is the fantastic, and they were all terrible to use when I tried. Well, I don't care for choice in my init system. I want it to work. And systemd works fine for me.

zapttt 7y ago
> it shiped you completely missed the point of the comment and the article. yes, it shipped, completely broken. lots and lots of functionality was lost for a while (and some not deemed enterpise-worthy still are). what seems more correct for you in this car anaology: suppose - some cars have the turn signal on top left stalk - other cars have the wiper and healigth control on the top stalk. would you standardize them by: a) set a industry standard and wait for them to follow, with a period or brands permanently Opting out (let's say golf carts without turn signals) or b) force legislation from top down to immediately repurpose the top left stalk for turn signals via sopftware update, no matter if some companies will make the headlight control not work for years or keep the now-wrongly marked control permanently? systemd is option B. the same system did could easily have been done with a standards for init scritpts and opt-in. yet it was done with a top down idiotic decision that was self serving to some players.
dijit 7y ago
> Well, I don't care for choice in my init system. I want it to work. We Agree. > And systemd works fine for me. But it doesn't for me, and I am left with no choice but to suffer with it.
- tifadg1 6y ago
  so what should be done, in your opinion, if it works very well for 51% of people, good enough for 48% and breaks the work flow of 1%? easiest answer is to say get rid of the inter-dependencies, but that's throwing money and time at a problem affecting 1% of users, at no benefit to the rest. Maybe it's still the right answer, but who's to pick up the slack?

zapttt 7y ago

> it shiped you completely missed the point of the comment and the article. yes, it shipped, completely broken. lots and lots of functionality was lost for a while (and some not deemed enterpise-worthy still are). what seems more correct for you in this car anaology: suppose - some cars have the turn signal on top left stalk - other cars have the wiper and healigth control on the top stalk. would you standardize them by: a) set a industry standard and wait for them to follow, with a period or brands permanently Opting out (let's say golf carts without turn signals) or b) force legislation from top down to immediately repurpose the top left stalk for turn signals via sopftware update, no matter if some companies will make the headlight control not work for years or keep the now-wrongly marked control permanently? systemd is option B. the same system did could easily have been done with a standards for init scritpts and opt-in. yet it was done with a top down idiotic decision that was self serving to some players.

dijit 7y ago

> Well, I don't care for choice in my init system. I want it to work. We Agree. > And systemd works fine for me. But it doesn't for me, and I am left with no choice but to suffer with it.

tifadg1 6y ago
so what should be done, in your opinion, if it works very well for 51% of people, good enough for 48% and breaks the work flow of 1%? easiest answer is to say get rid of the inter-dependencies, but that's throwing money and time at a problem affecting 1% of users, at no benefit to the rest. Maybe it's still the right answer, but who's to pick up the slack?