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It also barely touches on the harassment she encountered that caused her to withdraw from technology and her online presence. The reason that's relevant is I re

by akdas 6y ago

It also barely touches on the harassment she encountered that caused her to withdraw from technology and her online presence. The reason that's relevant is I remember her blog fondly, and it's sad we lost someone who was so clearly invested in teaching others. I hope we can learn from that lesson, though given the negative response I've seen to Codes of Conduct and the calling out of sexism within our industry, I can see growth being a very slow process.

h0l0cube 6y ago
I was oblivious to these happenings. A cursory Google search led me to this, for anyone who's interested: https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-changing-attitudes-towards-cyber-gender-harassment-anonymous-as-a-guide/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-c...
gadders 6y ago
I used to read her book and I remember that. Not sure how many people it was, but it went beyond sexism. I think it was the death threats that got to her.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Death threats are a disappointingly routine part of online sexism.
tinus_hn 6y ago
Codes of conduct have gone far beyond just not harassing people, trying to cover things like master/slave connectors, blacklists and whitelists and the transgender pronouns. That’s bound to be controversial. I don’t think there would be many complaints (apart from trolls) about a code of conduct that prohibits the things done to Kathy Sierra; about the only justifiable objection is that this behavior should be covered by the unwritten rules of basic civility instead.
reuven 6y ago
I knew that I recognized the name "Kathy Sierra" from somewhere. A bit of searching confirmed that she not only started the amazing "Head First" series, but also the great book "Badass." I had NO idea that she had been subject to harassment, or that it was so bad (not that it can be good) that she left the industry and removed her online presence. How incredibly sad for our industry that brilliant, helpful people are pushed out because of such behavior. And how sad that we don't stand up to such bullies more, and stop them from behaving in such terrible ways. Thanks for mentioning this very important aspect of Sierra's work and life. Her withdrawal from the industry is a loss, and a lesson, for the rest of us.
skinkestek 6y ago
Codes of Conducts shouldn't be necessary to tell people not to break the laws which seems to be what happened here. Codes of Conduct also has a number of downsides, first and foremost the creation of more meta games. Also, for the record: This very site, one of the nicest forums there is, together with lobste.rs and others: none of the have stupid CoCs and they are still among the nicest sites there is.
- kthejoker2 6y ago
  You should read The Honor Code: How Moral Revolutions Happen by Kwame Anthony Appiah, it talks exactly about why Codes of Conducts are necessary, even for things which are not "breaking the law." Moral stances have a place.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    So, if they are truly necessary: how comes HN and a number of other places works extremely well without one?
    - akdas 6y ago
      I don't think this discussion will be productive if different people have a different set of first principles they start with. In this case, I disagree that HN works extremely well. It works well, but there's still a fair amount of misogyny in my experience.
    - kthejoker2 6y ago
      HN has an honor code - it may not be as strong as the "SJW!" trope you have in your mind, but it certainly exists. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ALl of their guidelines have the same shape as all honor codes: they ask you not to do something that you are, in a strict legalist / absolutist sense, allowed to do. And then they shame those who violate the rules, and the group codifies that shame in the name of "common" "decency", and those activities no longer happen here in great numbers, despite being "allowed" in the larger sense (they even preface most of the guidelines with "Please" to emphasize the voluntary nature of your choice to submit to the guidelines.)

by akdas 6y ago

h0l0cube 6y ago

I was oblivious to these happenings. A cursory Google search led me to this, for anyone who's interested: https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-changing-attitudes-towards-cyber-gender-harassment-anonymous-as-a-guide/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/04/27/the-c...

gadders 6y ago

I used to read her book and I remember that. Not sure how many people it was, but it went beyond sexism. I think it was the death threats that got to her.

pjc50 6y ago
Death threats are a disappointingly routine part of online sexism.

tinus_hn 6y ago

Codes of conduct have gone far beyond just not harassing people, trying to cover things like master/slave connectors, blacklists and whitelists and the transgender pronouns. That’s bound to be controversial. I don’t think there would be many complaints (apart from trolls) about a code of conduct that prohibits the things done to Kathy Sierra; about the only justifiable objection is that this behavior should be covered by the unwritten rules of basic civility instead.

reuven 6y ago

I knew that I recognized the name "Kathy Sierra" from somewhere. A bit of searching confirmed that she not only started the amazing "Head First" series, but also the great book "Badass." I had NO idea that she had been subject to harassment, or that it was so bad (not that it can be good) that she left the industry and removed her online presence. How incredibly sad for our industry that brilliant, helpful people are pushed out because of such behavior. And how sad that we don't stand up to such bullies more, and stop them from behaving in such terrible ways. Thanks for mentioning this very important aspect of Sierra's work and life. Her withdrawal from the industry is a loss, and a lesson, for the rest of us.

skinkestek 6y ago

Codes of Conducts shouldn't be necessary to tell people not to break the laws which seems to be what happened here. Codes of Conduct also has a number of downsides, first and foremost the creation of more meta games. Also, for the record: This very site, one of the nicest forums there is, together with lobste.rs and others: none of the have stupid CoCs and they are still among the nicest sites there is.

kthejoker2 6y ago
You should read The Honor Code: How Moral Revolutions Happen by Kwame Anthony Appiah, it talks exactly about why Codes of Conducts are necessary, even for things which are not "breaking the law." Moral stances have a place.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  So, if they are truly necessary: how comes HN and a number of other places works extremely well without one?
  - akdas 6y ago
    I don't think this discussion will be productive if different people have a different set of first principles they start with. In this case, I disagree that HN works extremely well. It works well, but there's still a fair amount of misogyny in my experience.
  - kthejoker2 6y ago
    HN has an honor code - it may not be as strong as the "SJW!" trope you have in your mind, but it certainly exists. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ALl of their guidelines have the same shape as all honor codes: they ask you not to do something that you are, in a strict legalist / absolutist sense, allowed to do. And then they shame those who violate the rules, and the group codifies that shame in the name of "common" "decency", and those activities no longer happen here in great numbers, despite being "allowed" in the larger sense (they even preface most of the guidelines with "Please" to emphasize the voluntary nature of your choice to submit to the guidelines.)