3 ms·

I would argue if not using the OS python is the correct way to do things then python by default should not install at an OS level. Installing in the OS should b

I would argue if not using the OS python is the correct way to do things then python by default should not install at an OS level. Installing in the OS should be left to the OS only and the default should be that python installs per project which special instructions for installing it as a default for a user and special special instructions for how to replace the OS level one. I really wish this was the default for all languages but the majority default to "install in your system" and then I run into the problems you and the OP mention. As it is, finding out/figuring out how to work around the default is always magic incantations and spells buried on page 947 of appendix G if you're lucky or else spewed around the internet in drips and drabs by unreliable and or outdated sources. As an example I wanted to contribute to some conformance tests for some browser API. The test suite used selenium which uses python all of which wanted global installs. I tried for a few hours to get it to run with local installs but I failed to find the correct secret ritual to perform and after a few hours decided I no longer felt like searching for the correct oracle to enlighten me. ps: For my particular needs a VM was not a solution

aaronbrethorst 7y ago
then python by default should not install at an OS level Which is exactly what will happen later this year(?): "The older Python language, version 2.7, is being deprecated in macOS 10.15 Catalina and won’t be included in macOS 10.16. The same goes for other UNIX scripting languages." https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/macos-catalina-deprecates-unix-scripting-languages/ https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/macos-catalina-deprecat... I think this is a mistake on Apple's part, fwiw.
- toast0 7y ago
  Relying on tools that come with the system puts you in a bad place if you want to run different versions of the tools than the system provides. It's really better for everyone if the base OS contains less, and you get more from the package managee (of which there are several to choose from on MacOS). If Apple wants to provide installable tools on the OS install media, that's fine, of course.
ldarby 7y ago
I once shipped a python script with a dependency on the requests package, and installing that on the customer's system caused an outage on their production server with 1000s of users because of a permissions issue, that wasn't present in their and my test systems. So, no more "use the system python" for me...
- in9 7y ago
  what a nightmare

aaronbrethorst 7y ago

then python by default should not install at an OS level Which is exactly what will happen later this year(?): "The older Python language, version 2.7, is being deprecated in macOS 10.15 Catalina and won’t be included in macOS 10.16. The same goes for other UNIX scripting languages." https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/macos-catalina-deprecates-unix-scripting-languages/ https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/macos-catalina-deprecat... I think this is a mistake on Apple's part, fwiw.

toast0 7y ago
Relying on tools that come with the system puts you in a bad place if you want to run different versions of the tools than the system provides. It's really better for everyone if the base OS contains less, and you get more from the package managee (of which there are several to choose from on MacOS). If Apple wants to provide installable tools on the OS install media, that's fine, of course.

ldarby 7y ago

I once shipped a python script with a dependency on the requests package, and installing that on the customer's system caused an outage on their production server with 1000s of users because of a permissions issue, that wasn't present in their and my test systems. So, no more "use the system python" for me...

in9 7y ago
what a nightmare