5 ms·

Once the old free Xcode 3 has vanished, this neatly puts an end to stuff like Homebrew or MacPorts. I really don't care about paying the $4, but for many people

by pilif 16y ago

Once the old free Xcode 3 has vanished, this neatly puts an end to stuff like Homebrew or MacPorts. I really don't care about paying the $4, but for many people without credit cards or unwilling to use iTunes/the app store, OSX just has become a lot less useful.

jws 16y ago
Fortunately Homebrew and MacPorts can just ship a gcc and get on with things.
- A1kmm 16y ago
  You can compile, but you can't link with the standard GNU toolchain to get a usable library (at least last I heard), because binutils simply doesn't support the Mach-O format (see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-09/msg00121.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-09/msg00121.html).
  - archgrove 16y ago
    I believe Apple's version of binutils is cctools, which is at http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/cctools/cctools-782/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/cctools/cctools-782/ . It includes ld and as. As you mention, the standard GNU source for binutils won't build, as it doesn't understand Mach-O, but MacPorts would seem to be free to use cctools for linking/assembling. If this turns into a "real issue", such that XCode 3 was rescinded and XCode 4 remained paid only - as opposed to some stupid accounting problem which might mean it would be bundled free with Lion, with XC3 hanging around for (Snow) Leopard - then I suspect we'll soon see MacPorts or their kin come up with a downloadable toolchain based on this existing Apple open source work that would allow them to continue virtually unchanged.
    - strmpnk 16y ago
      While it's not really useful for regular building, it seems like Joe Damato has made some progress on getting some of the binutils code working. http://twitter.com/joedamato/status/41235981722066944 http://twitter.com/joedamato/status/41235981722066944
  - ryanpetrich 16y ago
    Their linker is open source: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/ld64/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/ld64/
- spitfire 16y ago
  Why do they even need to compile on your system? They should be shipping binaries for 99.99999% of the users out there and an easy way to recompile for that last gentoo holdout ^W^WHPC system.
adsr 16y ago
Why would it put an end to macports? And why would that be neat?
- iloveponies 16y ago
  OS X without Xcode installed doesn't have a compiler - if you can't compile, you can't use macports or homebrew. It would be "neat" as in clean. No drama on Apple's behalf. Just put a price tag on the only real compiler, and it's over. Unless someone solves that issue.
  - adsr 16y ago
    Xcode is an IDE, you can still get the compilers as both of them are open source. http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gcc/gcc-5646/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gcc/gcc-5646/ http://llvm.org/releases/download.html http://llvm.org/releases/download.html
    - iloveponies 16y ago
      It's packaging and bundling that's the problem. There is enough people out there that don't want to have to manually install compilers etc versus just installing Xcode.
      - jarin 16y ago
        Well then they have a choice. Pay $5 for the convenience of installing gcc/clang via a 4 GB download, or install gcc/clang manually for free.
  - merijnv 16y ago
    Uh...OSX just uses gcc as a C compiler and all the Apple specific changes are open source as well (GPL license and all that), so what's stopping me from just distributing a binary (Apple patched) gcc?
    - jarin 16y ago
radicaldreamer 16y ago
You can buy an iTunes card at most pharmacies.
- dchest 16y ago
  (in the US)
  - raganwald 16y ago
    (and Canada)
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Certainly none in Brazil
    - ugh 16y ago
      (Germany, UK, Ireland, …)
- dedward 16y ago
  That doesn't address the part about those of us who don't want to use the App Store on our macs... we like them how they are. I love my mac, I have since OS X was mature enough to be useful, and I've converted tons of people, and I have lots of credit cards.. it's not about the money - Apple is seriously making me think about ditching them.
  - radicaldreamer 16y ago
    I understand the sentiment, but it's just a method of distribution for the SDK. XCode 4 doesn't keep you from distributing your apps any way you'd like. Isn't this like saying that you'd really like the new version of the dev environment on CD because you don't like DVDs? I doubt anyone would be complaining if it was 2003 and Apple was charging a $5 shipping and handling charge to ship you a DVD.
loire280 16y ago
I haven't seen any indication that they won't continue to include XCode in the install DVD that comes with every Mac.
- rchowe 16y ago
  But what about updates? Now handled by the mac app store, for apps bought by the mac app store. And the iPhone SDK may or may not be distributed with the mac, which may be out of date from the current iOS.

by pilif 16y ago

jws 16y ago

Fortunately Homebrew and MacPorts can just ship a gcc and get on with things.

A1kmm 16y ago
You can compile, but you can't link with the standard GNU toolchain to get a usable library (at least last I heard), because binutils simply doesn't support the Mach-O format (see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-09/msg00121.html http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-09/msg00121.html).
- archgrove 16y ago
  I believe Apple's version of binutils is cctools, which is at http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/cctools/cctools-782/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/cctools/cctools-782/ . It includes ld and as. As you mention, the standard GNU source for binutils won't build, as it doesn't understand Mach-O, but MacPorts would seem to be free to use cctools for linking/assembling. If this turns into a "real issue", such that XCode 3 was rescinded and XCode 4 remained paid only - as opposed to some stupid accounting problem which might mean it would be bundled free with Lion, with XC3 hanging around for (Snow) Leopard - then I suspect we'll soon see MacPorts or their kin come up with a downloadable toolchain based on this existing Apple open source work that would allow them to continue virtually unchanged.
  - strmpnk 16y ago
    While it's not really useful for regular building, it seems like Joe Damato has made some progress on getting some of the binutils code working. http://twitter.com/joedamato/status/41235981722066944 http://twitter.com/joedamato/status/41235981722066944
- ryanpetrich 16y ago
  Their linker is open source: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/ld64/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/ld64/
spitfire 16y ago
Why do they even need to compile on your system? They should be shipping binaries for 99.99999% of the users out there and an easy way to recompile for that last gentoo holdout ^W^WHPC system.

adsr 16y ago

Why would it put an end to macports? And why would that be neat?

iloveponies 16y ago
OS X without Xcode installed doesn't have a compiler - if you can't compile, you can't use macports or homebrew. It would be "neat" as in clean. No drama on Apple's behalf. Just put a price tag on the only real compiler, and it's over. Unless someone solves that issue.
- adsr 16y ago
  Xcode is an IDE, you can still get the compilers as both of them are open source. http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gcc/gcc-5646/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/gcc/gcc-5646/ http://llvm.org/releases/download.html http://llvm.org/releases/download.html
  - iloveponies 16y ago
    It's packaging and bundling that's the problem. There is enough people out there that don't want to have to manually install compilers etc versus just installing Xcode.
    - jarin 16y ago
      Well then they have a choice. Pay $5 for the convenience of installing gcc/clang via a 4 GB download, or install gcc/clang manually for free.
- merijnv 16y ago
  Uh...OSX just uses gcc as a C compiler and all the Apple specific changes are open source as well (GPL license and all that), so what's stopping me from just distributing a binary (Apple patched) gcc?
  - jarin 16y ago

radicaldreamer 16y ago

You can buy an iTunes card at most pharmacies.

dchest 16y ago
(in the US)
- raganwald 16y ago
  (and Canada)
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    Certainly none in Brazil
  - ugh 16y ago
    (Germany, UK, Ireland, …)
dedward 16y ago
That doesn't address the part about those of us who don't want to use the App Store on our macs... we like them how they are. I love my mac, I have since OS X was mature enough to be useful, and I've converted tons of people, and I have lots of credit cards.. it's not about the money - Apple is seriously making me think about ditching them.
- radicaldreamer 16y ago
  I understand the sentiment, but it's just a method of distribution for the SDK. XCode 4 doesn't keep you from distributing your apps any way you'd like. Isn't this like saying that you'd really like the new version of the dev environment on CD because you don't like DVDs? I doubt anyone would be complaining if it was 2003 and Apple was charging a $5 shipping and handling charge to ship you a DVD.

loire280 16y ago

I haven't seen any indication that they won't continue to include XCode in the install DVD that comes with every Mac.

rchowe 16y ago
But what about updates? Now handled by the mac app store, for apps bought by the mac app store. And the iPhone SDK may or may not be distributed with the mac, which may be out of date from the current iOS.