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> They said bans on air from specific places (especially those that disrupt supply chains) are bad. This is true. The idea that bans on travel are 'bad' is non

> They said bans on air from specific places (especially those that disrupt supply chains) are bad. This is true. The idea that bans on travel are 'bad' is nonsense. There's a global ban on civilian travel precisely because it is effective. > There is no evidence of human-to-human transmission. Sending out a message only to contradict it days later is poor communication and management. > They said that random people shouldn't go out of their way to acquire medical PPE No they said masks were not effective: ‘very little evidence of widespread benefit from masks use outside of these clinical settings’. Study after study contradicts this. Additionally, as a cynical example of subterfuge, their Director-General made up some lies about Taiwan being racist while at the same time, in mainland China, Africans were being banned from shopping malls and evicted from their homes. The WHO messed up, repeatedly. And now their word is apparently sacrosanct on social media by threat of deletion which is simply outrageous.

joshuamorton 6y ago
> The idea that bans on travel are 'bad' is nonsense. There's a global ban on civilian travel precisely because it is effective. There's not though. > Sending out a message only to contradict it days later is poor communication and management. I can hear the goalposts scraping by. > very little evidence of widespread benefit from masks use outside of these clinical settings’ The WHO never said this, I'm not sure what you're quoting, it appears to be some British group. Please stop spreading misinformation.
- factsaresacred 6y ago
  My mistake, here is what the WHO said: > "If you do not have any respiratory symptoms...you do not need to wear a medical mask" Which is somehow worse.
  - joshuamorton 6y ago
    I've yet to see any actual evidence that wearing a cloth mask while social distancing helps you, as a healthy individual. And I've seen some to the contrary[0]. One of the WHO's main concerns is to prevent shortages and supply chain issues (see their statements about travel and import bans). A run on medical masks is problematic, and the WHO's guidance prevents that. I'll note that basically no government suggested (or suggests) wearing medical masks[1], unless you are symptomatic, which is in line with the WHO's guidance. Social distancing is much more important, and while masks may help, especially in areas that are crowded (which you should avoid if possible anyway), they only really help if you are symptomatic, in which case you should absolutely not be outside. The bay area is fairly unique in requiring mask wearing, and while it's not a major imposition, the utility is probably pretty marginal. [0]: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-not-back-cloth-masks-limit-covid-19-experts-say https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-... [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118603/
    - watwut 6y ago
      > One of the WHO's main concerns is to prevent shortages and supply chain issues (see their statements about travel and import bans). A run on medical masks is problematic, and the WHO's guidance prevents that. This argument does not pass smell test. In countries where masks were mandated, there was simultaneously lock on medical masks. People used homemade ones at first and then later you could buy non-medical cloth masks. > they only really help if you are symptomatic This does not make sense either. You spread virus before having symptoms. Asymptomatic people spread virus too.
      - joshuamorton 6y ago
        > This argument does not pass smell test. In countries where masks were mandated, there was simultaneously lock on medical masks. People used homemade ones at first and then later you could buy non-medical cloth masks. Right, and there are no studies that I'm aware of showing that cloth face masks are effective at stopping the spread of covid-19. They're good at stopping large particles (which afaik you only really have if you're coughing), but not small/aerosolized ones. Again, if you're being careful with your mask and making sure to clean it regularly and treat it like a dangerous object and washing hands after using it etc. It might help. If you aren't, it might hurt. Hence the WHO's guidance. To be clear, I'm not saying "masks are bad", or even "masks aren't good". I'm saying "the evidence that masks are helpful is not strong enough to decry an organization that doesn't recommend them."
        watwut 6y ago
        > which afaik you only really have if you're coughing Which is something people do. The general advice is changing last weeks, it is more and more recommended to wear them even in countries that were super opposed a month ago. You dont need mask to be 100% effective to be useful.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      > The bay area is fairly unique in requiring mask wearing Assuming you mean "in the USA" there since a whole bunch of places around the world made them compulsory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Mask_use_and_policies_by_country_and_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

joshuamorton 6y ago

> The idea that bans on travel are 'bad' is nonsense. There's a global ban on civilian travel precisely because it is effective. There's not though. > Sending out a message only to contradict it days later is poor communication and management. I can hear the goalposts scraping by. > very little evidence of widespread benefit from masks use outside of these clinical settings’ The WHO never said this, I'm not sure what you're quoting, it appears to be some British group. Please stop spreading misinformation.

factsaresacred 6y ago
My mistake, here is what the WHO said: > "If you do not have any respiratory symptoms...you do not need to wear a medical mask" Which is somehow worse.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  I've yet to see any actual evidence that wearing a cloth mask while social distancing helps you, as a healthy individual. And I've seen some to the contrary[0]. One of the WHO's main concerns is to prevent shortages and supply chain issues (see their statements about travel and import bans). A run on medical masks is problematic, and the WHO's guidance prevents that. I'll note that basically no government suggested (or suggests) wearing medical masks[1], unless you are symptomatic, which is in line with the WHO's guidance. Social distancing is much more important, and while masks may help, especially in areas that are crowded (which you should avoid if possible anyway), they only really help if you are symptomatic, in which case you should absolutely not be outside. The bay area is fairly unique in requiring mask wearing, and while it's not a major imposition, the utility is probably pretty marginal. [0]: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-not-back-cloth-masks-limit-covid-19-experts-say https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/data-do-... [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118603/
  - watwut 6y ago
    > One of the WHO's main concerns is to prevent shortages and supply chain issues (see their statements about travel and import bans). A run on medical masks is problematic, and the WHO's guidance prevents that. This argument does not pass smell test. In countries where masks were mandated, there was simultaneously lock on medical masks. People used homemade ones at first and then later you could buy non-medical cloth masks. > they only really help if you are symptomatic This does not make sense either. You spread virus before having symptoms. Asymptomatic people spread virus too.
    - joshuamorton 6y ago
      > This argument does not pass smell test. In countries where masks were mandated, there was simultaneously lock on medical masks. People used homemade ones at first and then later you could buy non-medical cloth masks. Right, and there are no studies that I'm aware of showing that cloth face masks are effective at stopping the spread of covid-19. They're good at stopping large particles (which afaik you only really have if you're coughing), but not small/aerosolized ones. Again, if you're being careful with your mask and making sure to clean it regularly and treat it like a dangerous object and washing hands after using it etc. It might help. If you aren't, it might hurt. Hence the WHO's guidance. To be clear, I'm not saying "masks are bad", or even "masks aren't good". I'm saying "the evidence that masks are helpful is not strong enough to decry an organization that doesn't recommend them."
      - watwut 6y ago
        > which afaik you only really have if you're coughing Which is something people do. The general advice is changing last weeks, it is more and more recommended to wear them even in countries that were super opposed a month ago. You dont need mask to be 100% effective to be useful.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    > The bay area is fairly unique in requiring mask wearing Assuming you mean "in the USA" there since a whole bunch of places around the world made them compulsory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic#Mask_use_and_policies_by_country_and_territory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_COVID-19...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]