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The studies show that it reduced the amount of overt hate speech on reddit. That's not the same thing as reducing hate speech on reddit nor is it the same thing

The studies show that it reduced the amount of overt hate speech on reddit. That's not the same thing as reducing hate speech on reddit nor is it the same thing as reducing hate speech total. The people who left might've ended up creating seeds elsewhere. We don't know that. Furthermore, overt hate speech isn't necessarily the problem for society. It matters more for society what beliefs someone holds than what they are willing to express. The Soviet Union is an example of that - people outwardly expressed agreement with the government, but secretly were against it.

gamblor956 6y ago
That's ridiculous. Of course it matters what someone is willing to express. A person willing to express hateful speech is a person who is also more willing to engage in hateful acts. Making it harder to cross that first line absolutely matters in making it harder for them to cross the line of becoming an active danger to others.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  >A person willing to express hateful speech is a person who is also more willing to engage in hateful acts. Considering how hate speech is a very flimsy term, I don't think that this always follows. I do believe that there's likely a correlation, but I doubt it's strong. Some will say that claiming that there are only 2 genders is hate speech, others that claiming that abortion is murder is hate speech. Not to mention that there are many cases where something clearly not hate speech is labeled as hate speech. In the UK a teenager was arrested for quoting rap song lyrics on an Instagram profile page. This was labeled a hate crime by the prosecutor.[0] Do you think that this makes her more likely to engage in hateful behavior? Bullies at school often get away with their bullying, because they bully in ways that are not overtly noticeable. They will use terms that aren't offensive to make fun of and hurt others. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  Genuinely curious why you think this is so (is there data about this?). It's entirely possible that letting things out makes people less likely to act on them.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    In Myanmar there were widespread street attacks on Muslims actively organized on social media, if you've ever been to a country where minorities are subject to online propaganda and lies and the devastating consequences it has on their safety on the streets you wouldn't even think that letting hate overrun online communities somehow pacifies people is believable.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    When I was a public defender I got assigned to defend a number of skinheads. I got a pretty heavy exposure to their racist bullshit and it's one of the reasons I'm no longer a public defender. Everyone thinks hateful thoughts in brief moments of anger, but very few people ever act on those thoughts or express them. Their whole recruitment process was to get someone to move from just thinking thoughts to acting on them, usually by spreading the message to others. Once you cross that line from thinking to action, the bright line divider is gone--it's all just a matter of degrees of action.
Barrin92 6y ago
>Furthermore, overt hate speech isn't necessarily the problem for society. It matters more for society what beliefs someone holds than what they are willing to express What beliefs people hold in their heads is the result of a multitude of factors and upbringing and it's really beyond our ability and probably not a good idea to think we can somehow turn every racist into a non-racist with sufficient facts and thoughts and prayer or personal coaching. What we can do is intervene when it comes to racists acting on their racism, be that in the form of public speech acts or even violence, that is to say when they participate in public life, for example on internet platforms. >The Soviet Union is an example of that - people outwardly expressed agreement with the government, but secretly were against it. And what happened to the Soviet Union when all those people were able to express their dissent? Nothing good. If you're saying that racists are going to be as empowered by lack of supression as dissidents were in the Soviet Union I'm not sure you're making a great case for ignoring their propaganda.

gamblor956 6y ago

That's ridiculous. Of course it matters what someone is willing to express. A person willing to express hateful speech is a person who is also more willing to engage in hateful acts. Making it harder to cross that first line absolutely matters in making it harder for them to cross the line of becoming an active danger to others.

Mirioron 6y ago
>A person willing to express hateful speech is a person who is also more willing to engage in hateful acts. Considering how hate speech is a very flimsy term, I don't think that this always follows. I do believe that there's likely a correlation, but I doubt it's strong. Some will say that claiming that there are only 2 genders is hate speech, others that claiming that abortion is murder is hate speech. Not to mention that there are many cases where something clearly not hate speech is labeled as hate speech. In the UK a teenager was arrested for quoting rap song lyrics on an Instagram profile page. This was labeled a hate crime by the prosecutor.[0] Do you think that this makes her more likely to engage in hateful behavior? Bullies at school often get away with their bullying, because they bully in ways that are not overtly noticeable. They will use terms that aren't offensive to make fun of and hurt others. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
diebeforei485 6y ago
Genuinely curious why you think this is so (is there data about this?). It's entirely possible that letting things out makes people less likely to act on them.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  In Myanmar there were widespread street attacks on Muslims actively organized on social media, if you've ever been to a country where minorities are subject to online propaganda and lies and the devastating consequences it has on their safety on the streets you wouldn't even think that letting hate overrun online communities somehow pacifies people is believable.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  When I was a public defender I got assigned to defend a number of skinheads. I got a pretty heavy exposure to their racist bullshit and it's one of the reasons I'm no longer a public defender. Everyone thinks hateful thoughts in brief moments of anger, but very few people ever act on those thoughts or express them. Their whole recruitment process was to get someone to move from just thinking thoughts to acting on them, usually by spreading the message to others. Once you cross that line from thinking to action, the bright line divider is gone--it's all just a matter of degrees of action.

Barrin92 6y ago

>Furthermore, overt hate speech isn't necessarily the problem for society. It matters more for society what beliefs someone holds than what they are willing to express What beliefs people hold in their heads is the result of a multitude of factors and upbringing and it's really beyond our ability and probably not a good idea to think we can somehow turn every racist into a non-racist with sufficient facts and thoughts and prayer or personal coaching. What we can do is intervene when it comes to racists acting on their racism, be that in the form of public speech acts or even violence, that is to say when they participate in public life, for example on internet platforms. >The Soviet Union is an example of that - people outwardly expressed agreement with the government, but secretly were against it. And what happened to the Soviet Union when all those people were able to express their dissent? Nothing good. If you're saying that racists are going to be as empowered by lack of supression as dissidents were in the Soviet Union I'm not sure you're making a great case for ignoring their propaganda.