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I'm hoping my reply is more helpful than it sounds at first glance... This is one of those questions where I read and then exclaim (rhetorically), "what's wrong

I'm hoping my reply is more helpful than it sounds at first glance... This is one of those questions where I read and then exclaim (rhetorically), "what's wrong with people?!" Don't take this the wrong way, I often exclaim this. You are quite possibly in the majority and I'm the odd one. To me it has always seemed inherently clear that the way to approach life is to do something if you enjoy it. If you stop enjoying it then do something else. I will naturally need a break from doing something after a while (hours, days, weeks), and so I'll put it down and pickup something else. As a recent article on HN mentioned, "enthusiasm is worth 25 IQ points." When it comes to self-guided activities such as this, there has never been a "should" or "best" for me. I just follow what I enjoy, perhaps guided secondarily by what may be useful. (Actually, I enjoy things that are useful, so perhaps that intertwines these concepts for me). I suspect I didn't thrive at university for this reason, while in the real world I know a number of people who would call me an overachiever. PS. I have a few friends with some degree of ADHD. These friends may often feel overwhelmed by a large number of choices or tasks, to the point of inaction. I'm not saying this applies to you, but I just thought it was worth mentioning.

stevewodil 6y ago
Ok I enjoy watching YouTube, so I will do that
- londt8 6y ago
  What kind of videos you watch? Maybe that could guide you to find something which interests you.
  - andai 6y ago
    I recently heard the advice to do some forensics on yourself -- bookmarks, search history, youtube history, to figure out what kind of person you are (in the context of what work would suit you best).
- crispyporkbites 6y ago
  Do you really enjoy watching YouTube, or is it just easy to fire up their home page and click on recommended videos with promising titles that ultimately leave you unfulfilled, lonely and disillusioned? Are you wondering how to break this cycle of content consumption? Do you need a break from the hedonistic treadmill of social media?
  - gerdesj 6y ago
    Quite a few leading questions there! I'm sure you have probably touched a nerve for us all at one point or another but why not go easy on the attack and dive in with some empathy? Or why not play silly buggers with randomish thoughts: Perhaps we could come up with a trail of breadcrumbs that touches on decent YT vids. By leaving carefully coded comments. warms to idea That would leave the trail in YT itself which would self heal if multiply pointered properly, ie each point has a link forwards, backwards and to, perhaps a hub to use in the event of a bigger outage. The above might be far more fun to deploy than a search engine or an old school WAIS/Gopher. After a while the host would cotton on and decide to either encourage or thwart. Game on! sips more wine OK so who fancies playing stenography style games with YT comments to generate guided courses using YT vids?
    - ryeights 6y ago
      I don't think it was intended as an attack, but rather the GP's own experience with YouTube time-wasting. It's certainly mine.
- krallja 6y ago
  Andrew Ng. Machine Thinking. 8-Bit Guy. Ben Eater. Jeri Ellsworth. I do some of my best learning with YouTube.
  - non-entity 6y ago
    I enjoy these sort of channels, but I would say I ever "learn" anything from them.
  - hnick 6y ago
    I watched hours of gardening and cooking videos on YouTube yesterday and learned a lot of useful information. Unfortunately that probably won't help me with my next job interview :(
    - dgb23 6y ago
      Those are creative activities and fun things to talk about. They can also be used as illustrative analogies for software.
kbutler 6y ago
Most things that are fun, and almost everything that is amazing, require periods of not-fun to get there. Practicing a musical instrument, falling while snowboarding, getting up early to be on the mountain for the sunrise. The original poster is asking for ideas to help build enough discipline to power through the tough spots of a learning curve to get to where the proficiency pays off in enjoyment or other benefits. We have so many easy diversions, that it's easy to train one's self to not do hard things. I can study/practice/work for a future benefit, or I can play a video game (or browse hn) for fun now! Training yourself to do hard things is harder. Maintaining a vision of the goal, getting satisfaction from expending effort, having empathy for your future self, denying yourself of immediate distractions/pleasures can each play a role.
- Jenz 6y ago
  > Practicing a musical instrument This is not fun?
  - krallja 6y ago
    STE-PING-UP. STE-PING-DOWN. THEN. A. SKIP C D E E D C D E C Practicing a musical instrument is not fun. Playing a musical instrument is fun. Practicing is mostly repeating scales and other patterns.
    - jes5199 6y ago
      someone told me that the way they learned to play the violin was that had to love being bad at it. Love the experience of _not_ being able to do it, of it not coming naturally, of trying and failing, of being overwhelmed by it, and of slowly and painfully getting better. If you can enjoy that, you can enjoy it the whole way through. If you see it as a gauntlet of pain you have to cross before you get to the good stuff, you won’t get there.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    When you know a piece and play it, it can be fun. But the way there can be frustrating and tedious. You'll make mistakes. You'll learn slower than you'd like. You might repeat the same section a hundred times before you feel satisfied. Some days you'll even feel like you've forgotten how to play certain parts properly. But you do it anyways because you know it's rewarding and satisfying at the end of the day (and with a certain level of discipline), not because it's fun moment-to-moment.
decompiled_dev 6y ago
I agree with you, but I think there is enjoyment in getting a deep understanding of one area and having a plan can help you do this. Instead of walking around it can be fun to climb a mountain or go for an over night hike. For example if you want to get stronger having a workout plan can help you get that goal. Going to the gym and do whatever will keep you in shape and if that keeps you motivated that's great, but some are motivated by doing something they can't do right now.
cortesoft 6y ago
I don't think enjoyment is the guide we should always use for deciding what to do. That is one aspect of our lives that is important to maintain, but a lot of satisfaction in life comes from things that aren't 'enjoyable' in the strictest sense, especially not in the moment that you are doing the action. Hard work, selflessness, and sacrifice doesn't usually feel enjoyable in the moment, but can lead to a more satisfying life.
- adamcharnock 6y ago
  From the other comments here this seems like a common sentiment. I do indeed do things which are not enjoyable in the strictest sense, as you phrase it. However I do still think my original comment is true, so perhaps there is some finessing to be done here. I'm not sure I have the answer though. Perhaps there are different kinds of 'enjoyment'. And perhaps I'm personally willing to accept some immediate suffering because I know I'm pursuing a greater enjoyment. I'm certainly not advocating for (constantly) pursuing in-the-moment unbridled hedonism. Something which may be related to this is the idea of type 1 fun and type 2 fun. I'm not sure where I heard this, but few people I talk to have heard of it. Type 1 fun is the kind of fun which is enjoyable in the moment. For example, computer games and watching youtube videos. Type 2 fun is the kind of fun which is enjoyable upon reflection but not necessarily in the moment. For example, running a marathon, certain moments of trial/despair when working on a big project. When I first played Factorio I played it for about a week solid. I loved it. After that I could put it down and do other things. I now play it for a couple of days every couple of months when the mood takes me. This is type 1 fun for me. I'm certainly glad a ran a marathon, and it is a very happy memory, but no way in hell am I going to do that again. Very much type 2 fun. Some comments (not necessarily the one I'm replying to) seem to inversely correlate enjoyment with how hard a task is. The harder a task is the less likely it is to be enjoyable. Is this true? It certainly isn't my experience, but maybe I'm odd as I originally suggested. Something which has also driven me is boredom. Being a freelance developer has given me a lot of free time. Certainly for me, type 1 fun only goes so far in conquering that boredom. Sure, play computer games for 6 months, but then that gets boring too. At least it did for me. Then what? Then, for me, type 2 fun starts to look more appealing. Perhaps I should build a house? Sure its going to be hard, but I'm practical and I like leaning new stuff. Plus I'll be outdoors, and at the end of it I'll have a house. (FWIW, I actually did this) Perhaps that's just being an "up" kind of person. I think it is also believing in one's abilities. I don't think this is a cohesive point with a strong conclusion, but perhaps this series of paragraphs is useful in furthering a discussion.
krallja 6y ago
Yep. Also, see if there's a game that teaches you the thing you want to learn. I learned orbital mechanics from Kerbal Space Program. Assembly programming from TIS-100 and Microcorruption. And … whatever the heck I learned from Factorio. Logistics? Abstraction? If there isn't a game, you might try and make it a game. See how fast you can solve the example problems in the textbook. Get the high score on your flashcards. (This doesn't work for me, I get more interested in designing and building the game than playing it.)
- sfgweilr4f 6y ago
  Factorio literally lets you build a system then have bugs attack it. By itself that is the basis for a lot of systems thinking right there. Especially when you're production drops and you run out of ammo. And the bugs are coming. And power is running low. And you're low on iron-plate and you need that for ammo. Which you're now low on.
- waste_monk 6y ago
  If you like TIS-100 and similar games, check out MHRD (available on Steam and itch.io). It teaches you a simplified version of hardware description language that you'd use to synthesize stuff on an FPGA or ASIC. You start out using NAND gates to build foundational logic gates (AND, OR, etc.), and gradually work your way up to building stuff like I/O multiplexers, memory, an ALU, and finally a working CPU using the building blocks you've created along the way.
  - codeknight11 6y ago
    any recommendations for games related to Computer Science, Data Structures, Algorithms, etc.? I have already tried human resource machine and 7 billion humans, but got bored after a while?
    - waste_monk 6y ago
      Almost everything from Zachtronics studio (various concepts), Gladiabots (haven't played much but seems reasonable, build AI decision trees), Prime Mover (circuits), Silicon Zeroes (similar to MHRD but more user friendly), Cypher (haven't played much, Cryptography).
rmtech 6y ago
on the other hand, if you enjoy goofing off playing video games more than you enjoy doing math courses & you act on that, then reality will find you a job at McDonald's instead of a coding job. So choose what you enjoy wisely.
- sirmarksalot 6y ago
  For these kinds of purposes, I liken most video games to drugs, or junk food -- they're designed to appeal to some of our instincts without actually satisfying the needs those instincts are meant to address. They offer us novelty without meaningful discovery, challenge without development of a transferable skill. Do what interests you, with the caveat that if people have spent time and effort to create something that plays with your brain chemistry and creates the artificial sensation of "interest," then consume in moderation. The same applies to TV shows, trashy novels, and any other "content" that is meant to be consumed, rather than spur creativity. Not meaning to judge anyone here. I'm mostly speaking from my own challenges. And obviously, I'm not talking about all games, TV shows, etc., either.
- kharak 6y ago
  You can do what you want, but not will what you want. Same with enjoyment. There is no choice here, only discovery.
- heisnotanalien 6y ago
  Funny because in my experience people are good at math tend to like playing games. At a certain level, every game is math after all.
  - heisnotanalien 6y ago
    What you call goofing off playing video games others call research.
tomxor 6y ago
I want to add some clarification for everyone in the "normal" boat, because I think I learn in the same way as parent: Specifically what "enjoy" is being attributed to... which is _not_ the end result, but the _process_. You can't pick this up front, you have to just play and throw things away like you don't care (and you really don't care), just keep trying things until it feels enjoyable. I suspect people get stuck running uphill because they focus on end results rather than the process. In the most extremely obvious case, if you ask most kids what they want to be when the grow up (the end result) they predictably say astronaut or some lofty, hard to attain but awesome sounding end result, even though they have absolutely no idea if they would enjoy the process of becoming and being an astronaut. ... Focus on the process, i.e play, and care about nothing other than interest and enjoyment, you cannot pick the precise end result, you can only roll the marble along the most effective path to an unspecified "good" result.
- connectsnk 6y ago
  This needs a bot more clarification please. What are your thoughts about the process of browsing social media which is interesting and enjoyable
  - andai 6y ago
    I've wondered recently whether I want things that are bad for me, and how to tell the difference. What I noticed was that cravings for harmful substances or behaviors were (the craving itself) a form of suffering, a feeling of lack, while desires for healthy things were a form of positive emotion / eagerness.
  - tomxor 6y ago
    In essence you are asking me to explain how to differentiate entertainment from everything else. It's probably best to literally ask yourself that question honestly, but a good rule of thumb might be: If it's not intellectually stimulating, it's probably pure entertainment. This is tricky because some good forms of entertainment will make you think, but probably not enough to be considered "learning" in the way we mean here.
Paianni 6y ago
Finding something enjoyable that also earns a living is not easy for everyone.
throwlaplace 6y ago
>"what's wrong with people?!" some like setting goals with their hobbies. achieving those goals takes discipline most of the time. there's nothing wrong with trying to optimize how go about cultivating that discipline. of course if you're trying to be disciplined compulsively then that's a different matter.
hnick 6y ago
Some people enjoy doing useful things (my wife is one), others enjoy useless things (me - mostly video games, reading random trivia online, or trying new recipes which is nice but doesn't pay the bills). So if I were to take your advice (and honestly, I mostly do run like that) it means a lot of time spent doing something ephemeral with no real lasting benefit. I think your last point applies to me. I wish I could summon enthusiasm for projects rather than hobbies.
- xzel 6y ago
  This is a bit of an adage but can you make your hobbies your projects for some amount of time? For example, I spent a while at a start up recently and I really started to find programming boring for the first time in my life. I started setting a side more time to work on it as a hobby and my own projects instead of watching twitch or TV. I eventually started feeling more enthusiasm for work programming projects. I feel like you get bored of everything eventually, and in some cases just temporarily. And that makes you fine for your hobbies which you don’t spend more time on bc of your main focus. It’s bit of a tug of war. So you can either search and try to get it back or get rid of the boring projects forever. It can be very difficult and daunting, especially professionally, but there is always more and different work to be done somewhere.
  - hnick 6y ago
    My abandoned projects graveyard would be bigger than google's if I weren't just one guy. I like games so started doing a Unity course, it was fun, but then I got bored and stopped. No real reason, I think something else just caught my eye and it's hard to go back. I want to learn marketing automation so I installed Mautic but haven't gone much past that. The plethora of options (what feature to try first?) is paralysing. I help out with a Wordpress site and think making plugins would be neat, so I made one to help test some stuff, and that scratched the itch and now I don't really feel like doing it anymore even though it would be useful (and maybe profitable?) to learn. These were all fun and interesting I just seem to lose interest very quickly (a few days) and want to do something with more novelty. Probably the most productive way this manifests is cooking, at least we get to eat a bunch of new recipes. Today I'm making bread but hopefully I can also finish setting up this email series :)
vlunkr 6y ago
I'm mostly the same way. I think people go to school and get the idea deeply embedded in them that they need to have homework and proper study time or they're not learning. Yeah, there's tons to learn about computer science, but you don't need to learn it all. Learn what interests you, and if you really need a job, learn what will get you a job. Personally I go for smaller coding exercises, things like exercism.io, simply because I don't have the free time to embark on huge projects. I find that these are a good way to learn new languages. And they also remind me why I love programming in the first place, because I get to work in a pure problem-solving space, without the bearocracy, deadlines, etc, that I get in my day job.
- mertnesvat 6y ago
  Thanks for the exercism.io tip!
dorkwood 6y ago
I honestly feel like this is the secret. It took me years to figure out, too. It is, however, a piece of advice that will likely upset a lot of people, because, they'll say, not every activity worth doing is enjoyable. Which, obviously, is true. Sometimes learning something new or hard can be very difficult. But if you're motivated by your own interest and curiosity, the pain will actually be rewarding rather than soul-destroying. I just treat my curiosity like a compass now, and let it take me wherever.
Scarblac 6y ago
I have this as well. I worry about the system I'll use for doing things all the time. E.g. I now have a system for storing things I learn and getting back to them, and I've decided that the learning I do during work time should be some sort of project whereas during my own time I want to go wide and read on lots of random topics, from my Goodreads list. But the findings go into the same system. There is lots more to it. I can understand "do something if you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it then do something else." And my first reaction is to modify my system so that there are checks for enjoyment in there... (In fact, I do. E.g. when working on to-do lists I don't prioritize them anymore unless necessary, I just try to think what I feel like doing the most. But I had to decide that). It's like analysis paralysis but in many parts of life. There are things I'm very bad at because I never stop the analysis, like housekeeping. I'm currently trying to find out if I'm on the autism spectrum, so maybe that is what is different about some people.
sumfoni 6y ago
It sounds like you are doing similar on what i'm doing. Unfortunate for me, my street smarts and enthusiasm doesn't help me in achieving my next dream. I would love to work for a specific big company but without structured learning, i will not beat that shitty interview barrier.
JackFr 6y ago
Well it’s kind of the difference between “I’d like to learn to speak Italian” and “I’d like to be able to speak Italian”. The mastery of a new skill can be quite gratifying while the acquisition of that mastery can sometimes be a slog. I’m sympathetic to the OP, because at times I feel the same way. I want to become proficient in new skills but sometimes I feel I’m doing it in an inefficient roundabout way.
dkersten 6y ago
If I only did things I enjoyed, I wouldn’t be able to live because I don’t enjoy most house work, cooking, shopping, plenty of necessary things at work (and I have changed work a few times to maximise what I do enjoy, but there’s limits), etc. I do feel that a large reason why mundane, boring or unenjoyable things are so hard has to do with overstimulation from low effort high dopamine activities. It becomes much easier to tackle these things if your base level of dopamine is low, so small achievements give you a nice boost. It’s very hard to keep the base level low, though, in our always connected high stimulation world...
- PhaedrusV 6y ago
  Which is why the ultimate move is to teach yourself to enjoy the things you know you need to do. Having kids helps with enjoying chores. "No babe, it's OK, I'll take the dishes and listen to my podcast. You just watch the kids."
non-entity 6y ago
> To me it has always seemed inherently clear that the way to approach life is to do something if you enjoy it. I enjoy working on challenging engineering and software projects that fall into domains that interest me. I do not enjoy having to hunt and pick through algebra concepts I was never good at in the first place so I can than spend more time on even more difficult mathematics before I can do much useful work on those aforementioned projects.

stevewodil 6y ago

Ok I enjoy watching YouTube, so I will do that

londt8 6y ago
What kind of videos you watch? Maybe that could guide you to find something which interests you.
- andai 6y ago
  I recently heard the advice to do some forensics on yourself -- bookmarks, search history, youtube history, to figure out what kind of person you are (in the context of what work would suit you best).
crispyporkbites 6y ago
Do you really enjoy watching YouTube, or is it just easy to fire up their home page and click on recommended videos with promising titles that ultimately leave you unfulfilled, lonely and disillusioned? Are you wondering how to break this cycle of content consumption? Do you need a break from the hedonistic treadmill of social media?
- gerdesj 6y ago
  Quite a few leading questions there! I'm sure you have probably touched a nerve for us all at one point or another but why not go easy on the attack and dive in with some empathy? Or why not play silly buggers with randomish thoughts: Perhaps we could come up with a trail of breadcrumbs that touches on decent YT vids. By leaving carefully coded comments. warms to idea That would leave the trail in YT itself which would self heal if multiply pointered properly, ie each point has a link forwards, backwards and to, perhaps a hub to use in the event of a bigger outage. The above might be far more fun to deploy than a search engine or an old school WAIS/Gopher. After a while the host would cotton on and decide to either encourage or thwart. Game on! sips more wine OK so who fancies playing stenography style games with YT comments to generate guided courses using YT vids?
  - ryeights 6y ago
    I don't think it was intended as an attack, but rather the GP's own experience with YouTube time-wasting. It's certainly mine.
krallja 6y ago
Andrew Ng. Machine Thinking. 8-Bit Guy. Ben Eater. Jeri Ellsworth. I do some of my best learning with YouTube.
- non-entity 6y ago
  I enjoy these sort of channels, but I would say I ever "learn" anything from them.
- hnick 6y ago
  I watched hours of gardening and cooking videos on YouTube yesterday and learned a lot of useful information. Unfortunately that probably won't help me with my next job interview :(
  - dgb23 6y ago
    Those are creative activities and fun things to talk about. They can also be used as illustrative analogies for software.

kbutler 6y ago

Most things that are fun, and almost everything that is amazing, require periods of not-fun to get there. Practicing a musical instrument, falling while snowboarding, getting up early to be on the mountain for the sunrise. The original poster is asking for ideas to help build enough discipline to power through the tough spots of a learning curve to get to where the proficiency pays off in enjoyment or other benefits. We have so many easy diversions, that it's easy to train one's self to not do hard things. I can study/practice/work for a future benefit, or I can play a video game (or browse hn) for fun now! Training yourself to do hard things is harder. Maintaining a vision of the goal, getting satisfaction from expending effort, having empathy for your future self, denying yourself of immediate distractions/pleasures can each play a role.

Jenz 6y ago
> Practicing a musical instrument This is not fun?
- krallja 6y ago
  STE-PING-UP. STE-PING-DOWN. THEN. A. SKIP C D E E D C D E C Practicing a musical instrument is not fun. Playing a musical instrument is fun. Practicing is mostly repeating scales and other patterns.
  - jes5199 6y ago
    someone told me that the way they learned to play the violin was that had to love being bad at it. Love the experience of _not_ being able to do it, of it not coming naturally, of trying and failing, of being overwhelmed by it, and of slowly and painfully getting better. If you can enjoy that, you can enjoy it the whole way through. If you see it as a gauntlet of pain you have to cross before you get to the good stuff, you won’t get there.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  When you know a piece and play it, it can be fun. But the way there can be frustrating and tedious. You'll make mistakes. You'll learn slower than you'd like. You might repeat the same section a hundred times before you feel satisfied. Some days you'll even feel like you've forgotten how to play certain parts properly. But you do it anyways because you know it's rewarding and satisfying at the end of the day (and with a certain level of discipline), not because it's fun moment-to-moment.

decompiled_dev 6y ago

I agree with you, but I think there is enjoyment in getting a deep understanding of one area and having a plan can help you do this. Instead of walking around it can be fun to climb a mountain or go for an over night hike. For example if you want to get stronger having a workout plan can help you get that goal. Going to the gym and do whatever will keep you in shape and if that keeps you motivated that's great, but some are motivated by doing something they can't do right now.

cortesoft 6y ago

I don't think enjoyment is the guide we should always use for deciding what to do. That is one aspect of our lives that is important to maintain, but a lot of satisfaction in life comes from things that aren't 'enjoyable' in the strictest sense, especially not in the moment that you are doing the action. Hard work, selflessness, and sacrifice doesn't usually feel enjoyable in the moment, but can lead to a more satisfying life.

adamcharnock 6y ago
From the other comments here this seems like a common sentiment. I do indeed do things which are not enjoyable in the strictest sense, as you phrase it. However I do still think my original comment is true, so perhaps there is some finessing to be done here. I'm not sure I have the answer though. Perhaps there are different kinds of 'enjoyment'. And perhaps I'm personally willing to accept some immediate suffering because I know I'm pursuing a greater enjoyment. I'm certainly not advocating for (constantly) pursuing in-the-moment unbridled hedonism. Something which may be related to this is the idea of type 1 fun and type 2 fun. I'm not sure where I heard this, but few people I talk to have heard of it. Type 1 fun is the kind of fun which is enjoyable in the moment. For example, computer games and watching youtube videos. Type 2 fun is the kind of fun which is enjoyable upon reflection but not necessarily in the moment. For example, running a marathon, certain moments of trial/despair when working on a big project. When I first played Factorio I played it for about a week solid. I loved it. After that I could put it down and do other things. I now play it for a couple of days every couple of months when the mood takes me. This is type 1 fun for me. I'm certainly glad a ran a marathon, and it is a very happy memory, but no way in hell am I going to do that again. Very much type 2 fun. Some comments (not necessarily the one I'm replying to) seem to inversely correlate enjoyment with how hard a task is. The harder a task is the less likely it is to be enjoyable. Is this true? It certainly isn't my experience, but maybe I'm odd as I originally suggested. Something which has also driven me is boredom. Being a freelance developer has given me a lot of free time. Certainly for me, type 1 fun only goes so far in conquering that boredom. Sure, play computer games for 6 months, but then that gets boring too. At least it did for me. Then what? Then, for me, type 2 fun starts to look more appealing. Perhaps I should build a house? Sure its going to be hard, but I'm practical and I like leaning new stuff. Plus I'll be outdoors, and at the end of it I'll have a house. (FWIW, I actually did this) Perhaps that's just being an "up" kind of person. I think it is also believing in one's abilities. I don't think this is a cohesive point with a strong conclusion, but perhaps this series of paragraphs is useful in furthering a discussion.

krallja 6y ago

Yep. Also, see if there's a game that teaches you the thing you want to learn. I learned orbital mechanics from Kerbal Space Program. Assembly programming from TIS-100 and Microcorruption. And … whatever the heck I learned from Factorio. Logistics? Abstraction? If there isn't a game, you might try and make it a game. See how fast you can solve the example problems in the textbook. Get the high score on your flashcards. (This doesn't work for me, I get more interested in designing and building the game than playing it.)

sfgweilr4f 6y ago
Factorio literally lets you build a system then have bugs attack it. By itself that is the basis for a lot of systems thinking right there. Especially when you're production drops and you run out of ammo. And the bugs are coming. And power is running low. And you're low on iron-plate and you need that for ammo. Which you're now low on.
waste_monk 6y ago
If you like TIS-100 and similar games, check out MHRD (available on Steam and itch.io). It teaches you a simplified version of hardware description language that you'd use to synthesize stuff on an FPGA or ASIC. You start out using NAND gates to build foundational logic gates (AND, OR, etc.), and gradually work your way up to building stuff like I/O multiplexers, memory, an ALU, and finally a working CPU using the building blocks you've created along the way.
- codeknight11 6y ago
  any recommendations for games related to Computer Science, Data Structures, Algorithms, etc.? I have already tried human resource machine and 7 billion humans, but got bored after a while?
  - waste_monk 6y ago
    Almost everything from Zachtronics studio (various concepts), Gladiabots (haven't played much but seems reasonable, build AI decision trees), Prime Mover (circuits), Silicon Zeroes (similar to MHRD but more user friendly), Cypher (haven't played much, Cryptography).

rmtech 6y ago

on the other hand, if you enjoy goofing off playing video games more than you enjoy doing math courses & you act on that, then reality will find you a job at McDonald's instead of a coding job. So choose what you enjoy wisely.

sirmarksalot 6y ago
For these kinds of purposes, I liken most video games to drugs, or junk food -- they're designed to appeal to some of our instincts without actually satisfying the needs those instincts are meant to address. They offer us novelty without meaningful discovery, challenge without development of a transferable skill. Do what interests you, with the caveat that if people have spent time and effort to create something that plays with your brain chemistry and creates the artificial sensation of "interest," then consume in moderation. The same applies to TV shows, trashy novels, and any other "content" that is meant to be consumed, rather than spur creativity. Not meaning to judge anyone here. I'm mostly speaking from my own challenges. And obviously, I'm not talking about all games, TV shows, etc., either.
kharak 6y ago
You can do what you want, but not will what you want. Same with enjoyment. There is no choice here, only discovery.
heisnotanalien 6y ago
Funny because in my experience people are good at math tend to like playing games. At a certain level, every game is math after all.
- heisnotanalien 6y ago
  What you call goofing off playing video games others call research.

tomxor 6y ago

I want to add some clarification for everyone in the "normal" boat, because I think I learn in the same way as parent: Specifically what "enjoy" is being attributed to... which is _not_ the end result, but the _process_. You can't pick this up front, you have to just play and throw things away like you don't care (and you really don't care), just keep trying things until it feels enjoyable. I suspect people get stuck running uphill because they focus on end results rather than the process. In the most extremely obvious case, if you ask most kids what they want to be when the grow up (the end result) they predictably say astronaut or some lofty, hard to attain but awesome sounding end result, even though they have absolutely no idea if they would enjoy the process of becoming and being an astronaut. ... Focus on the process, i.e play, and care about nothing other than interest and enjoyment, you cannot pick the precise end result, you can only roll the marble along the most effective path to an unspecified "good" result.

connectsnk 6y ago
This needs a bot more clarification please. What are your thoughts about the process of browsing social media which is interesting and enjoyable
- andai 6y ago
  I've wondered recently whether I want things that are bad for me, and how to tell the difference. What I noticed was that cravings for harmful substances or behaviors were (the craving itself) a form of suffering, a feeling of lack, while desires for healthy things were a form of positive emotion / eagerness.
- tomxor 6y ago
  In essence you are asking me to explain how to differentiate entertainment from everything else. It's probably best to literally ask yourself that question honestly, but a good rule of thumb might be: If it's not intellectually stimulating, it's probably pure entertainment. This is tricky because some good forms of entertainment will make you think, but probably not enough to be considered "learning" in the way we mean here.

Paianni 6y ago

Finding something enjoyable that also earns a living is not easy for everyone.

throwlaplace 6y ago

>"what's wrong with people?!" some like setting goals with their hobbies. achieving those goals takes discipline most of the time. there's nothing wrong with trying to optimize how go about cultivating that discipline. of course if you're trying to be disciplined compulsively then that's a different matter.

hnick 6y ago

Some people enjoy doing useful things (my wife is one), others enjoy useless things (me - mostly video games, reading random trivia online, or trying new recipes which is nice but doesn't pay the bills). So if I were to take your advice (and honestly, I mostly do run like that) it means a lot of time spent doing something ephemeral with no real lasting benefit. I think your last point applies to me. I wish I could summon enthusiasm for projects rather than hobbies.

xzel 6y ago
This is a bit of an adage but can you make your hobbies your projects for some amount of time? For example, I spent a while at a start up recently and I really started to find programming boring for the first time in my life. I started setting a side more time to work on it as a hobby and my own projects instead of watching twitch or TV. I eventually started feeling more enthusiasm for work programming projects. I feel like you get bored of everything eventually, and in some cases just temporarily. And that makes you fine for your hobbies which you don’t spend more time on bc of your main focus. It’s bit of a tug of war. So you can either search and try to get it back or get rid of the boring projects forever. It can be very difficult and daunting, especially professionally, but there is always more and different work to be done somewhere.
- hnick 6y ago
  My abandoned projects graveyard would be bigger than google's if I weren't just one guy. I like games so started doing a Unity course, it was fun, but then I got bored and stopped. No real reason, I think something else just caught my eye and it's hard to go back. I want to learn marketing automation so I installed Mautic but haven't gone much past that. The plethora of options (what feature to try first?) is paralysing. I help out with a Wordpress site and think making plugins would be neat, so I made one to help test some stuff, and that scratched the itch and now I don't really feel like doing it anymore even though it would be useful (and maybe profitable?) to learn. These were all fun and interesting I just seem to lose interest very quickly (a few days) and want to do something with more novelty. Probably the most productive way this manifests is cooking, at least we get to eat a bunch of new recipes. Today I'm making bread but hopefully I can also finish setting up this email series :)

vlunkr 6y ago

I'm mostly the same way. I think people go to school and get the idea deeply embedded in them that they need to have homework and proper study time or they're not learning. Yeah, there's tons to learn about computer science, but you don't need to learn it all. Learn what interests you, and if you really need a job, learn what will get you a job. Personally I go for smaller coding exercises, things like exercism.io, simply because I don't have the free time to embark on huge projects. I find that these are a good way to learn new languages. And they also remind me why I love programming in the first place, because I get to work in a pure problem-solving space, without the bearocracy, deadlines, etc, that I get in my day job.

mertnesvat 6y ago
Thanks for the exercism.io tip!

dorkwood 6y ago

I honestly feel like this is the secret. It took me years to figure out, too. It is, however, a piece of advice that will likely upset a lot of people, because, they'll say, not every activity worth doing is enjoyable. Which, obviously, is true. Sometimes learning something new or hard can be very difficult. But if you're motivated by your own interest and curiosity, the pain will actually be rewarding rather than soul-destroying. I just treat my curiosity like a compass now, and let it take me wherever.

Scarblac 6y ago

I have this as well. I worry about the system I'll use for doing things all the time. E.g. I now have a system for storing things I learn and getting back to them, and I've decided that the learning I do during work time should be some sort of project whereas during my own time I want to go wide and read on lots of random topics, from my Goodreads list. But the findings go into the same system. There is lots more to it. I can understand "do something if you enjoy it, if you stop enjoying it then do something else." And my first reaction is to modify my system so that there are checks for enjoyment in there... (In fact, I do. E.g. when working on to-do lists I don't prioritize them anymore unless necessary, I just try to think what I feel like doing the most. But I had to decide that). It's like analysis paralysis but in many parts of life. There are things I'm very bad at because I never stop the analysis, like housekeeping. I'm currently trying to find out if I'm on the autism spectrum, so maybe that is what is different about some people.

sumfoni 6y ago

It sounds like you are doing similar on what i'm doing. Unfortunate for me, my street smarts and enthusiasm doesn't help me in achieving my next dream. I would love to work for a specific big company but without structured learning, i will not beat that shitty interview barrier.

JackFr 6y ago

Well it’s kind of the difference between “I’d like to learn to speak Italian” and “I’d like to be able to speak Italian”. The mastery of a new skill can be quite gratifying while the acquisition of that mastery can sometimes be a slog. I’m sympathetic to the OP, because at times I feel the same way. I want to become proficient in new skills but sometimes I feel I’m doing it in an inefficient roundabout way.

dkersten 6y ago

If I only did things I enjoyed, I wouldn’t be able to live because I don’t enjoy most house work, cooking, shopping, plenty of necessary things at work (and I have changed work a few times to maximise what I do enjoy, but there’s limits), etc. I do feel that a large reason why mundane, boring or unenjoyable things are so hard has to do with overstimulation from low effort high dopamine activities. It becomes much easier to tackle these things if your base level of dopamine is low, so small achievements give you a nice boost. It’s very hard to keep the base level low, though, in our always connected high stimulation world...

PhaedrusV 6y ago
Which is why the ultimate move is to teach yourself to enjoy the things you know you need to do. Having kids helps with enjoying chores. "No babe, it's OK, I'll take the dishes and listen to my podcast. You just watch the kids."

non-entity 6y ago

> To me it has always seemed inherently clear that the way to approach life is to do something if you enjoy it. I enjoy working on challenging engineering and software projects that fall into domains that interest me. I do not enjoy having to hunt and pick through algebra concepts I was never good at in the first place so I can than spend more time on even more difficult mathematics before I can do much useful work on those aforementioned projects.