26 ms·

Great! When Windows gets awful enough, it will actually be the year of Linux Desktop.

by netcoyote 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kylebenzle 6y ago
Agree. I can't understand why anyone is still on windows or mac os. The world does not make sense.
- metalforever 6y ago
  Adobe and VR
  - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
    Can you elaborate about the VR? I'm starting to look into a Valve Index setup on a Linux gaming PC. But I'm unclear about what kind of VR goodness I'd miss by avoiding Windows 10.
    - somebodynew 6y ago
      VR is only usable if the game and the entire supporting stack works perfectly (graphics drivers, USB 3 controller, power management etc). There are tight framerate/latency requirements and everything goes through intricate off-screen rendering as VR headsets don't pretend to be an additional monitor anymore. This leads to two classes of major problems: total failure (crashing outright) and stuttering (low framerate, high latency, or occasional "hiccups"). These are equally unacceptable (stuttering ruins VR and can make you feel ill). It is difficult enough to avoid these issues on Windows where the OS vendor, the graphics card vendor, the motherboard vendor, the game developer, and the VR rendering API developer are focusing their attention and releasing frequent patches to fix VR issues. There seems to be a general opinion that an Nvidia GPU on Windows 10 is the standard VR development target. If VR doesn't work perfectly for you on Linux, it's going to be a pain to sort it out, assuming that's even possible without hoping a third party releases an updated binary blob in the future. Valve does pay attention to Linux and provide SteamVR support, but they haven't officially released Half-Life: Alyx for Linux yet. They will probably release more information about compatibility when they do.
  - BubRoss 6y ago
    Adobe definitely keeps people off of linux, although it is a shake, because linux or not, their software is terrible for most things compared to alternatives.
- dorkwood 6y ago
  PC gamers. Graphic designers who can't afford a Mac workstation. 3D artists who use 3rd party render software such as Octane. I'm sure there are many other groups that I'm unfamiliar with.
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    > PC Gamers Baring games with anticheat you can play pretty much any game release within the last 20+ years with Wine + Proton + DXVK/D9VK. Usually with minimal fussing. You can check out ProtonDB[1] to see if you favorite game works. 1. https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
- whyhow 6y ago
  I tried Ubuntu for the first time in years last month. At first I was pretty happy with it, but gradually I grew frustrated. Every time I would install a new library in R (statistical programming language) I would have to spend 10-15 minutes trying to figure out why it didn't work. I'd end up in this deep rabbit hole of missing dependencies that I never had a problem with in MacOS or windows
  - fishstamp82 6y ago
    I would recommend arch linux, everything exists in the aur and most things work out of the box. Dont buy the hype that arch is hard, its a really simple system imo.
    - ohazi 6y ago
      The setup process for Arch is challenging, but it can be a rewarding exercise if you want to have a better understanding of how a Linux system is put together. It's like Linux from Scratch, but less time consuming, and you end up with a system that you can actually use when you're finished. But yeah, once it's set up, and you've figured out how things typically work in Arch (e.g. you install a package first, but nothing is enabled by default - you have to decide how you want it to start), it's a great system. You'll learn how to actually use systemd, and will generally have a better feel for how everything is supposed to function, which will make you better at investigating things when they break, or when they don't work out of the box, even on other systems. Also the Arch wiki is an amazing resource regardless of what you're running. I don't necessarily have any reservations about recommending Arch to a beginner, but you do have to be curious and willing to learn. People who tried Linux and then got frustrated because some piece of software didn't work quite right out of the box probably wouldn't enjoy using Arch.
    - kjsthree 6y ago
      Manjaro takes the edge off Arch. After having tended my Arch garden for a year or so (very grateful for all the learning) I’m happy with the balance of some handholding without losing the AUR.
  - ramshorns 6y ago
- auxym 6y ago
  MS Office
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ Pretty convenient, has a ribbon interface same as MS Office. Honestly I can't even tell the difference. Except for one thing: It doesn't take as long to start, and doesn't require a supercomputer to run with a decent performance. Lotus 1-2-3 or Quattro Pro on a 286 feels faster than Excel.
    - NullPrefix 6y ago
      Got excited for a while until I've noticed that this office is free as in free beer, not free as in freedom.
      - 29athrowaway 6y ago
        Still better than staying on Windows only because of MS Office. LibreOffice, Caligra Office (formerly KOffice) and Gnome Office (Abiword, Gnumeric) are not quite there yet.
- Marsymars 6y ago
  Every time I try a Linux desktop, I find it unpleasant and/or time consuming to use. If I use it for long enough that I get used to it, it's a breath of fresh air when I do go back to macOS or Windows. They just don't have the UI/UX polish I want.
  - intopieces 6y ago
    Agreed, it’s telling that all the discussions about switching to Linux get right to “... and all you need to do it compile your own trackpad, WiFi, and display drivers. Sleep doesn’t quite work and scaling on HiDPI is still broken, but at least you’re not using Windows...” Linux guys, I love you, I really do, but please spare a thought for those of us whose jobs and personal commitments don’t permit us to tweak our set-ups ad infinitum before you recommend the switch. Computers are fun, but we also need to get work done.
    - fouric 6y ago
      Have you actually tried installing Linux on a computer recently, or just read discussions? If you've actually tried it and ran into issues that required you to compile your own drivers, either you're using a user-hostile (users != programmers) distro like Arch or you might have just gotten unlucky. None of the computers I've used with Linux over the past nine years have had more than two small issues (all of which I was able to fix within a few days), and two of my boxes had no issues at all. Hardware support in Linux is so much better than it was two decades ago.
      - polotics 6y ago
        I concur. Linux usage has been seamless in comparison with MacOs or Windows from my PoV, for at least 5 years.
        jjdredd 6y ago
        I wouldn't say that Linux maintenance is completely smooth for me, but if something happens it's usually due to my own poor attention. OTOH Windows 10 is determined to force its updates on me at the most inconvenient times. Once I left Windows 10 to update over night, to be greeted with grub rescue screen in the morning. Took me most of the next day to fix things. Linux isn't perfect but at least it doesn't break everything and I'm the one in control of things.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- abdulhaq 6y ago
  Wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, printer drivers, graphics card drivers. Drivers. I'm a fan of linux and used it as my primary OS for over a decade. Now Windows 10 is good enough and is less hassle.
  - sempron64 6y ago
    This is my anecdote, but when using crummy old printers and scanners I've had a lot more luck with Ubuntu just working out of the box with them (with maybe a selection dialog), but I had to hunt down and download the driver software on the Internet on Windows 7. With Windows 10 I've had a better experience where it has generally found drivers through Windows Update. So drivers are mixed bag on any OS, I think.
    - boomlinde 6y ago
      Having drivers maintained in-tree probably gives Linux an edge over Windows when it comes to old hardware.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- BubRoss 6y ago
  Even just on the surface, linux interfaces are nowhere close to the refinement of the windows 7 UI.
- lone_haxx0r 6y ago
  As someone who uses Linux as their main OS, I can tell you a few: 1. Ugly UIs: Of all the distros I've tried, the only one that doesn't make me wanna gouge my eyes out is Ubuntu. Most Linux users seem to have accustomed to ugly UIs to the point that they don't notice their ugliness anymore. 2. Bad UX: I've been using Gnome shell for 2 years and I still don't understand it. I never remember if ALT+TAB switches between groups of windows or between windows, or between windows in the same group. Or was that ALT+ESC?. I've never had such issues on Windows. Am I just too stupid for Gnome? Also, why do I have to edit 2 obscure files (from the POV of a regular user) in order to have a simple 'show desktop' button in my taskbar? Also, why do I have to install an external application (Gnome tweak tool) to disable mouse acceleration? And if you're not on Gnome, good luck trying to use libinput (used by Linux Mint and Ubuntu Mate) directly, because for some bizarre reason the "flat acceleration profile" setting is ignored if you're using a touchpad. Also, why do I have to install an external plugin and edit an obscure file to have audio compression/normalization when Windows has a single checkbox that reads "Enable audio normalization" Also, why does PulseAudio start to crackle each time I open reader mode on Firefox? * Note: You can choose a desktop environment with decent UX, but it will look ugly (xfce). Or you can choose a DE that looks good but has bad UX (Gnome Shell with Ubuntu customizations) 3. If the app you want isn't in your distro repos, you have 2 choices: a) Install a ppa whose server doesn't work anymore, so now each time you update your repos, there'll be ugly warnings about the dead server. Now you have to Google "how to remove ppa" and choose between 5 articles telling you 5 different ways to do it. b) download a .tar.gz and spend 1 hour installing the right dependencies the right way, and then 'make'ing and 'make install'ing only to find that there's some obscure error. After all of this, I still use Linux because I think Windows is slightly worse overall. But would totally understand why some people still choose Windows.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    It looks similar to my experience ten years ago. Ubuntu is hardly manageable. It breaks once you tweak. I've switched to Arch: * no Gnome, use simple DE * ALSA, no audio normalization, no cracks * AUR https://aur.archlinux.org/ https://aur.archlinux.org/ - it has everything, if not building package is simple with PKGBUILD It is beautiful under skin.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- som33 6y ago
  >Agree. I can't understand why anyone is still on windows or mac os. The world does not make sense. Because the average person is a moron, that's how we have steam, mmo's, uplay, origin, etc. DRM and windows 10 with drm in it is a sign of idiocracy. Remember there was a time when there was no steam, origin, uplay, aka we got honestly coded software, complete games with dedicated servers and level editors. That stopped because the companies realizing their customers were computer illiterate morons beyond their wildest imagination.
  - nexuist 6y ago
    The average person is not a moron. The average person has a job and a family not related to computer science and does not want to spend 8+ hours editing configuration files and compiling drivers just so they can print a poster for their daughter's graduation.
    - som33 6y ago
      You don't seem to understand any piece of software that is running between two computers, means you no longer own your machine and they can do whatever they want to it, you are running corporately hacked software. The level of stupid comming out of HN commentariat is alarming. You're literally buying internet dongle enabled software, aka something someone stupid would be doing. Imagine in the 90's you bought a PC and windows required a second disc and an ethernet cable coupled to the back of a staples store you bought it in. That's "software as a service", aka something morons would do. Whenever you don't get a complete piece of software you are literally being robbed, the fact Hacker news commentators think themselves "hackers" while supporting defective software, means your brains aren't working. The idea that having microsoft and big companies ability to spy on everything you do is somehow enlightened is nonsense, you're an idiot building a turnkey tyranny, if politics ever goes south all these companies will have all the data they want about you and your behavior and you'll morn the day you gave away your basic rights to privacy for stupid consumer convenience.
modzu 6y ago
i had a time sensitive mission critial task for work a few months ago. had to reboot and windows 10 began a forced automatic update. the next day i installed debian and i have not looked back, its a glorious feeling to have control of my own computer again!!! very stable and very fast. it used to take me like 10 seconds to open phpstorm (turns out that's windows defender at work). takes 1s on linux. try it!!!
tfehring 6y ago
The Year of the Linux Desktop will be 10 years after you can set up a Linux desktop, including installing all the software you need, without opening the terminal. Anyone who distributes software for Linux end users but doesn't include a one-click installer should keep this in mind.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  Great! We're like a year away from that then. I remember installing Ubuntu in 2011 with no issues. It installed with Windows using a burned CD, and had a store that I could download everything from. Updates were via gui. Of course I played with the terminal because I was a geek, but a layman could use and update the computer with absolutely no issue.

Great! When Windows gets awful enough, it will actually be the year of Linux Desktop.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

kylebenzle 6y ago

Agree. I can't understand why anyone is still on windows or mac os. The world does not make sense.

metalforever 6y ago
Adobe and VR
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  Can you elaborate about the VR? I'm starting to look into a Valve Index setup on a Linux gaming PC. But I'm unclear about what kind of VR goodness I'd miss by avoiding Windows 10.
  - somebodynew 6y ago
    VR is only usable if the game and the entire supporting stack works perfectly (graphics drivers, USB 3 controller, power management etc). There are tight framerate/latency requirements and everything goes through intricate off-screen rendering as VR headsets don't pretend to be an additional monitor anymore. This leads to two classes of major problems: total failure (crashing outright) and stuttering (low framerate, high latency, or occasional "hiccups"). These are equally unacceptable (stuttering ruins VR and can make you feel ill). It is difficult enough to avoid these issues on Windows where the OS vendor, the graphics card vendor, the motherboard vendor, the game developer, and the VR rendering API developer are focusing their attention and releasing frequent patches to fix VR issues. There seems to be a general opinion that an Nvidia GPU on Windows 10 is the standard VR development target. If VR doesn't work perfectly for you on Linux, it's going to be a pain to sort it out, assuming that's even possible without hoping a third party releases an updated binary blob in the future. Valve does pay attention to Linux and provide SteamVR support, but they haven't officially released Half-Life: Alyx for Linux yet. They will probably release more information about compatibility when they do.
- BubRoss 6y ago
  Adobe definitely keeps people off of linux, although it is a shake, because linux or not, their software is terrible for most things compared to alternatives.
dorkwood 6y ago
PC gamers. Graphic designers who can't afford a Mac workstation. 3D artists who use 3rd party render software such as Octane. I'm sure there are many other groups that I'm unfamiliar with.
- deadbunny 6y ago
  > PC Gamers Baring games with anticheat you can play pretty much any game release within the last 20+ years with Wine + Proton + DXVK/D9VK. Usually with minimal fussing. You can check out ProtonDB[1] to see if you favorite game works. 1. https://www.protondb.com/ https://www.protondb.com/
whyhow 6y ago
I tried Ubuntu for the first time in years last month. At first I was pretty happy with it, but gradually I grew frustrated. Every time I would install a new library in R (statistical programming language) I would have to spend 10-15 minutes trying to figure out why it didn't work. I'd end up in this deep rabbit hole of missing dependencies that I never had a problem with in MacOS or windows
- fishstamp82 6y ago
  I would recommend arch linux, everything exists in the aur and most things work out of the box. Dont buy the hype that arch is hard, its a really simple system imo.
  - ohazi 6y ago
    The setup process for Arch is challenging, but it can be a rewarding exercise if you want to have a better understanding of how a Linux system is put together. It's like Linux from Scratch, but less time consuming, and you end up with a system that you can actually use when you're finished. But yeah, once it's set up, and you've figured out how things typically work in Arch (e.g. you install a package first, but nothing is enabled by default - you have to decide how you want it to start), it's a great system. You'll learn how to actually use systemd, and will generally have a better feel for how everything is supposed to function, which will make you better at investigating things when they break, or when they don't work out of the box, even on other systems. Also the Arch wiki is an amazing resource regardless of what you're running. I don't necessarily have any reservations about recommending Arch to a beginner, but you do have to be curious and willing to learn. People who tried Linux and then got frustrated because some piece of software didn't work quite right out of the box probably wouldn't enjoy using Arch.
  - kjsthree 6y ago
    Manjaro takes the edge off Arch. After having tended my Arch garden for a year or so (very grateful for all the learning) I’m happy with the balance of some handholding without losing the AUR.
- ramshorns 6y ago
auxym 6y ago
MS Office
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ https://www.freeoffice.com/en/ Pretty convenient, has a ribbon interface same as MS Office. Honestly I can't even tell the difference. Except for one thing: It doesn't take as long to start, and doesn't require a supercomputer to run with a decent performance. Lotus 1-2-3 or Quattro Pro on a 286 feels faster than Excel.
  - NullPrefix 6y ago
    Got excited for a while until I've noticed that this office is free as in free beer, not free as in freedom.
    - 29athrowaway 6y ago
      Still better than staying on Windows only because of MS Office. LibreOffice, Caligra Office (formerly KOffice) and Gnome Office (Abiword, Gnumeric) are not quite there yet.
Marsymars 6y ago
Every time I try a Linux desktop, I find it unpleasant and/or time consuming to use. If I use it for long enough that I get used to it, it's a breath of fresh air when I do go back to macOS or Windows. They just don't have the UI/UX polish I want.
- intopieces 6y ago
  Agreed, it’s telling that all the discussions about switching to Linux get right to “... and all you need to do it compile your own trackpad, WiFi, and display drivers. Sleep doesn’t quite work and scaling on HiDPI is still broken, but at least you’re not using Windows...” Linux guys, I love you, I really do, but please spare a thought for those of us whose jobs and personal commitments don’t permit us to tweak our set-ups ad infinitum before you recommend the switch. Computers are fun, but we also need to get work done.
  - fouric 6y ago
    Have you actually tried installing Linux on a computer recently, or just read discussions? If you've actually tried it and ran into issues that required you to compile your own drivers, either you're using a user-hostile (users != programmers) distro like Arch or you might have just gotten unlucky. None of the computers I've used with Linux over the past nine years have had more than two small issues (all of which I was able to fix within a few days), and two of my boxes had no issues at all. Hardware support in Linux is so much better than it was two decades ago.
    - polotics 6y ago
      I concur. Linux usage has been seamless in comparison with MacOs or Windows from my PoV, for at least 5 years.
      - jjdredd 6y ago
        I wouldn't say that Linux maintenance is completely smooth for me, but if something happens it's usually due to my own poor attention. OTOH Windows 10 is determined to force its updates on me at the most inconvenient times. Once I left Windows 10 to update over night, to be greeted with grub rescue screen in the morning. Took me most of the next day to fix things. Linux isn't perfect but at least it doesn't break everything and I'm the one in control of things.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
abdulhaq 6y ago
Wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, printer drivers, graphics card drivers. Drivers. I'm a fan of linux and used it as my primary OS for over a decade. Now Windows 10 is good enough and is less hassle.
- sempron64 6y ago
  This is my anecdote, but when using crummy old printers and scanners I've had a lot more luck with Ubuntu just working out of the box with them (with maybe a selection dialog), but I had to hunt down and download the driver software on the Internet on Windows 7. With Windows 10 I've had a better experience where it has generally found drivers through Windows Update. So drivers are mixed bag on any OS, I think.
  - boomlinde 6y ago
    Having drivers maintained in-tree probably gives Linux an edge over Windows when it comes to old hardware.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
BubRoss 6y ago
Even just on the surface, linux interfaces are nowhere close to the refinement of the windows 7 UI.
lone_haxx0r 6y ago
As someone who uses Linux as their main OS, I can tell you a few: 1. Ugly UIs: Of all the distros I've tried, the only one that doesn't make me wanna gouge my eyes out is Ubuntu. Most Linux users seem to have accustomed to ugly UIs to the point that they don't notice their ugliness anymore. 2. Bad UX: I've been using Gnome shell for 2 years and I still don't understand it. I never remember if ALT+TAB switches between groups of windows or between windows, or between windows in the same group. Or was that ALT+ESC?. I've never had such issues on Windows. Am I just too stupid for Gnome? Also, why do I have to edit 2 obscure files (from the POV of a regular user) in order to have a simple 'show desktop' button in my taskbar? Also, why do I have to install an external application (Gnome tweak tool) to disable mouse acceleration? And if you're not on Gnome, good luck trying to use libinput (used by Linux Mint and Ubuntu Mate) directly, because for some bizarre reason the "flat acceleration profile" setting is ignored if you're using a touchpad. Also, why do I have to install an external plugin and edit an obscure file to have audio compression/normalization when Windows has a single checkbox that reads "Enable audio normalization" Also, why does PulseAudio start to crackle each time I open reader mode on Firefox? * Note: You can choose a desktop environment with decent UX, but it will look ugly (xfce). Or you can choose a DE that looks good but has bad UX (Gnome Shell with Ubuntu customizations) 3. If the app you want isn't in your distro repos, you have 2 choices: a) Install a ppa whose server doesn't work anymore, so now each time you update your repos, there'll be ugly warnings about the dead server. Now you have to Google "how to remove ppa" and choose between 5 articles telling you 5 different ways to do it. b) download a .tar.gz and spend 1 hour installing the right dependencies the right way, and then 'make'ing and 'make install'ing only to find that there's some obscure error. After all of this, I still use Linux because I think Windows is slightly worse overall. But would totally understand why some people still choose Windows.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  It looks similar to my experience ten years ago. Ubuntu is hardly manageable. It breaks once you tweak. I've switched to Arch: * no Gnome, use simple DE * ALSA, no audio normalization, no cracks * AUR https://aur.archlinux.org/ https://aur.archlinux.org/ - it has everything, if not building package is simple with PKGBUILD It is beautiful under skin.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
som33 6y ago
>Agree. I can't understand why anyone is still on windows or mac os. The world does not make sense. Because the average person is a moron, that's how we have steam, mmo's, uplay, origin, etc. DRM and windows 10 with drm in it is a sign of idiocracy. Remember there was a time when there was no steam, origin, uplay, aka we got honestly coded software, complete games with dedicated servers and level editors. That stopped because the companies realizing their customers were computer illiterate morons beyond their wildest imagination.
- nexuist 6y ago
  The average person is not a moron. The average person has a job and a family not related to computer science and does not want to spend 8+ hours editing configuration files and compiling drivers just so they can print a poster for their daughter's graduation.
  - som33 6y ago
    You don't seem to understand any piece of software that is running between two computers, means you no longer own your machine and they can do whatever they want to it, you are running corporately hacked software. The level of stupid comming out of HN commentariat is alarming. You're literally buying internet dongle enabled software, aka something someone stupid would be doing. Imagine in the 90's you bought a PC and windows required a second disc and an ethernet cable coupled to the back of a staples store you bought it in. That's "software as a service", aka something morons would do. Whenever you don't get a complete piece of software you are literally being robbed, the fact Hacker news commentators think themselves "hackers" while supporting defective software, means your brains aren't working. The idea that having microsoft and big companies ability to spy on everything you do is somehow enlightened is nonsense, you're an idiot building a turnkey tyranny, if politics ever goes south all these companies will have all the data they want about you and your behavior and you'll morn the day you gave away your basic rights to privacy for stupid consumer convenience.

modzu 6y ago

i had a time sensitive mission critial task for work a few months ago. had to reboot and windows 10 began a forced automatic update. the next day i installed debian and i have not looked back, its a glorious feeling to have control of my own computer again!!! very stable and very fast. it used to take me like 10 seconds to open phpstorm (turns out that's windows defender at work). takes 1s on linux. try it!!!

tfehring 6y ago

The Year of the Linux Desktop will be 10 years after you can set up a Linux desktop, including installing all the software you need, without opening the terminal. Anyone who distributes software for Linux end users but doesn't include a one-click installer should keep this in mind.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
Great! We're like a year away from that then. I remember installing Ubuntu in 2011 with no issues. It installed with Windows using a burned CD, and had a store that I could download everything from. Updates were via gui. Of course I played with the terminal because I was a geek, but a layman could use and update the computer with absolutely no issue.