4 ms·

As a business owner & non-engineer who sometimes uses freelance software engineers like OP, it's fascinating to see so much pushback to the guy's hourly rate. O

As a business owner & non-engineer who sometimes uses freelance software engineers like OP, it's fascinating to see so much pushback to the guy's hourly rate. On Hacker News! People are so hung up on how much the guy gets per hour, as a business owner all I'm thinking about are the total costs. There are lots of cheaper developers who would take longer to get the job done- how have I saved money by hiring them? And that's before getting into quality of work. I think many commenters are imagining OP as a contractor who works 40 hours a week for his clients, 9 to 5. The whole point of a consultant is that they're project-based, it's not an ongoing expense. I would certainly hire OP for a 20-50 hour project, say, and then an hour here or there to fix bugs and answer questions as needed. It's not a huge total cost, I don't care what the guy gets paid per hour. I literally just look at it like 'overall, this ML/AI project cost me $10k, and delivered x amount of value'. If HN commenters think $250 an hour is a lot, wait till they hire accountants or- god forbid- attorneys :) I bet OP is much smarter and delivers more value than my attorney that charges $400 an hour for simple contract review, and breaks out specific line items for answering my e-mails and 10 minute phone calls with me....

TrackerFF 6y ago
A bit OT, but in my industry (defense), some of the IT consultants from vendors can easily cost you $200-$400 / hr. And these consultants are definitely not Ph.D holders, working on state-of-the-art technology. Just your average java enterprise programmers that get flown in to do slight upgrades.
- xfitm3 6y ago
  Defense contractors are paid for clearance. You don't want employees in high trust jobs hungry for money.
m463 6y ago
Another perspective is -- do people know how much ML/AI experts are making wrt total compensation at some of the big companies? They might not make $250/hr in salary, but sometimes the stock options will dwarf that number. I can see how being freelance can be nice though. It keeps you on your feet, you get to see the problem from lots of different perspectives, and it tends to concentrate on the work.
tcbawo 6y ago
When I notice people pushing back on hourly rates, I think of a story a friend told me about an expert locksmith. He could unlock a door in under 30 seconds, but he often fiddled around a bit so his customers would feel better about having spent $200. He was very good, but if he made it look too easy, they would complain or give him a bad review. I try to never begrudge someone that knows how to add value and set a marketable price. If you're consistent, reliable and add value, they deserve it!
- Rastonbury 6y ago
  I'm not saying it's easy but $200 is a lot. Hypothetically purely based on opportunity costs, the AI freelancer could afford spending an hour trying to unlock his own door, someone like me I could spend like 6 hours buy a lockpick and watch a YouTube tutorial, or maybe easier to spend the next hour looking for a cheaper locksmith!
  - purerandomness 6y ago
    That is only possible because you didn't put a price tag on your own time. Similarly, a company's CEO could say "Hey, I could simply go to university myself and learn everything about NLP and solve my NLP problem and save 10.000$ for this contractor! Yay!" That's only scalable up to a certain point, and that point is usually reached when you realize that you need employees.

TrackerFF 6y ago

A bit OT, but in my industry (defense), some of the IT consultants from vendors can easily cost you $200-$400 / hr. And these consultants are definitely not Ph.D holders, working on state-of-the-art technology. Just your average java enterprise programmers that get flown in to do slight upgrades.

xfitm3 6y ago
Defense contractors are paid for clearance. You don't want employees in high trust jobs hungry for money.

m463 6y ago

Another perspective is -- do people know how much ML/AI experts are making wrt total compensation at some of the big companies? They might not make $250/hr in salary, but sometimes the stock options will dwarf that number. I can see how being freelance can be nice though. It keeps you on your feet, you get to see the problem from lots of different perspectives, and it tends to concentrate on the work.

tcbawo 6y ago

When I notice people pushing back on hourly rates, I think of a story a friend told me about an expert locksmith. He could unlock a door in under 30 seconds, but he often fiddled around a bit so his customers would feel better about having spent $200. He was very good, but if he made it look too easy, they would complain or give him a bad review. I try to never begrudge someone that knows how to add value and set a marketable price. If you're consistent, reliable and add value, they deserve it!

Rastonbury 6y ago
I'm not saying it's easy but $200 is a lot. Hypothetically purely based on opportunity costs, the AI freelancer could afford spending an hour trying to unlock his own door, someone like me I could spend like 6 hours buy a lockpick and watch a YouTube tutorial, or maybe easier to spend the next hour looking for a cheaper locksmith!
- purerandomness 6y ago
  That is only possible because you didn't put a price tag on your own time. Similarly, a company's CEO could say "Hey, I could simply go to university myself and learn everything about NLP and solve my NLP problem and save 10.000$ for this contractor! Yay!" That's only scalable up to a certain point, and that point is usually reached when you realize that you need employees.