5 ms·

IE9 to launch on March 14, 2011

34 points by zaatar 16y ago

zaatar 16y ago
The Channel 9 video is at: http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE9-RTW-Due-Date-A-Big-Thank-You-MIX11-and-a-Unicorn-Named-Frank http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE9-RTW-Due-Date-A-Bi...
- mmastrac 16y ago
  Thank god they finally got rid of that Silverlight crap for those channel9 videos. It still doesn't work in Firefox4 though. Not sure if I'm surprised.
  - contextfree 16y ago
    They didn't, it still uses Silverlight if Silverlight is installed. It just falls back to other stuff now.
    - mmastrac 16y ago
      It used to demand that Silverlight be installed before playing anything. It no longer does, thankfully. That's what I meant. EDIT: Argh, didn't take long to find an "install Silverlight" while browsing through the HTML5 demos site: http://html5labs.cloudapp.net/WebSockets/ChatDemo/wsdemo.html http://html5labs.cloudapp.net/WebSockets/ChatDemo/wsdemo.htm... Why do they keep doing this?
      - contextfree 16y ago
        IIRC, the Web Sockets implementation was something the WCF team was already experimenting with for their own purposes and originally had not much to do with IE9 or the IE team. Since it was implemented in WCF, obviously it would require a CLR (i.e. Silverlight). Putting it on the HTML5 Labs site is kind of goofy, and the whole HTML5 Labs thing is sort of a dubious PR exercise to begin with, but I guess it does at least show they're experimenting with the Web Sockets protocol.
melling 16y ago
As someone who hates IE, I must say that I'm actually really looking forward to IE9. The "worst" of the major browsers just closed the gap (and surpassed?) with fast JavaScript and gpu acceleration. Hopefully, there's more to come.
- nailer 16y ago
  No gradients, no transforms, no history. That's just off the top of my head with the stuff I already use.
  - mmastrac 16y ago
    Lack of HTML5 history is a big disappointment. This would have been a game-changer for the web - no more #! workarounds.
  - Joeri 16y ago
    It does support 2d transforms: http://msdn.microsoft.com/nl-nl/ie/ff468705.aspx#_CSS3_2D_Transforms http://msdn.microsoft.com/nl-nl/ie/ff468705.aspx#_CSS3_2D_Tr... There are ways to use svg to implement scalable gradients: http://css3wizardry.com/2010/10/29/css-gradients-for-ie9/ http://css3wizardry.com/2010/10/29/css-gradients-for-ie9/ . With some clever engineering someone could make a library that automatically converts gradient styles into SVG backgrounds.
    - nailer 16y ago
      Useful to know, but the simple thing I've been working on - a product browser akin to coverflow, with bookmarkable items - needs a 'skew' effect, which is considered a 3D transform.
  - pjscott 16y ago
    No websockets, either. That's the thing that irks me the most.
    - Athtar 16y ago
pzxc 16y ago
Is it true that it won't work on Windows XP? I know XP is like a decade old, and I really don't wanna start an upgrade-your-browser-you-noob flamefest, but it seems kinda lame to exclude the people still on XP from having a modern browser and I can't figure out what the rationale might be for that.
- mmastrac 16y ago
  There's never been a good reason publicly stated, but I imagine they don't want to be seeing as supporting their decade-old OS. Chrome, Firefox and Safari have no problem doing it, so it's very likely a political decision. I think Microsoft has some responsibility to update IE6 on XP, given that they left it out on the market so long and caused an incalculable amount of time to be lost developing for it while the rest of the worst was trying to move on.
  - endtime 16y ago
    Well IE7 and IE8 work on XP. Or are you just saying they should try to force the upgrade to IE8?
  - zaatar 16y ago
    Actually, no. The good reason that IE9 does not run on Windows XP has been publicly stated for at least an year, if not actually longer. The FAQ on ietestdrive.com [1] answers this question. The short answer is that the Graphics stack that IE9 uses is not available on Windows XP. [1] http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/Default.html http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/info/FrequentlyAskedQuesti...
    - mmastrac 16y ago
      It's a bogus technical reason. Chrome and Firefox show that GPU acceleration can work on XP: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/ http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/ http://blog.chromium.org/2010/09/unleashing-gpu-acceleration-on-web.html http://blog.chromium.org/2010/09/unleashing-gpu-acceleration... If Microsoft wanted to support GPU acceleration through an alternate rendering path like two other browsers are doing on XP, they would have done so. I find it more likely to conclude that they just didn't want to support XP and developed a browser GPU acceleration engine that wouldn't support it as a result of this high-level decision.
givan 16y ago
that will be a sad day, another junk launched :(
- ramki 16y ago
  if you don't like it, don't use it. But please don't be sad. Hope you are not depending on ie's rendering engine.
  - WiseWeasel 16y ago
    Maybe he's sad because, like me, he's a web developer who will have to support yet another non-compliant piece of junk browser from Microsoft.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      You don't have to support IE. Just like an iPhone developer doesn't have to support Android. Or an OS X developer doesn't have to support Windows. You give up some market share, but it's a standard tradeoff == more work vs more revenue? There's nothing to be sad about, it's a decision we make everyday. If IE is so painful that the revenue is not worth it, then don't do it. We currently don't support OS X. I'm not sad when Apple ships a new version of OS X. I just know that the 10% of the market that they own is one that we won't support. I'm fine with that, and have been for a while now.
      - teilo 16y ago
        Right. Here's your sales pitch: "Well, sir (or ma'am), your new website will only work with 'Modern' browsers." "I see. And what is a 'Modern' browser?" "Anything but IE." "Ah. Nice meeting with you. I'll keep your quote in mind." No IE support != less revenue. No IE support = no revenue.
      - damoncali 16y ago
        Here's the light at the end of the tunnel: I have a bug tracking app, and can honestly say that IE is an insignificant part of my traffic - comparable to Opera. Granted, it's a technical audience, but I can safely just not support IE. Our day is coming...
woogley 16y ago
Well, there goes any hopes of WebGL. It's a shame, too, the spec was just finalized last week.
27182818284 16y ago
People will debate endlessly whether IE9 is a "modern" browser based on its HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, etc support. The real smoking gun that it still isn't modern is that it doesn't include a spellcheck by default. You can't claim to be doing what users want while ignoring that elephant in the room.
- skore 16y ago
  Imagine all the people Spelling words properly, just for one day
- contextfree 16y ago
  My guess is that the real reason for this is that Windows 8 will add a native spellcheck API (technically Vista already did, as part of WPF, but that generally isn't used by consumer applications for various reasons), and in the meantime to avoid future confusion they don't want to implement it separately in IE.
jameskilton 16y ago
Launch, as in end of product, it's "finished", it's in the wild, you're on your own we will now work on IE 10? Or launch like the rest of the software development world now operates and push out updates on a regular basis, with new features and better standards support, leading to something that actually has a chance of competing with the browsers the rest of us love to use? 'Cause I think it was around 2000 that people started realizing that monolithic development and release cycles lead to failed products. Software needs to be, and can be, updated constantly, or it falls behind. If this launch is like all other IE launches, it will be a day we will all look back on with disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Microsoft actually become a modern development house, but I have huge doubts that it could ever happen.
tnorthcutt 16y ago
Exactly twelve months from the first Platform Preview of IE9, on Monday March 14th we will celebrate the developers and designers who are making a more beautiful web for all of us. We will release the final version of Internet Explorer 9 for download beginning at 9 p.m. Pacific. twelve months twelve months twelve months
- tnorthcutt 16y ago
  I guess I earned the downvotes for the bad attitude. I'm just amazed that in a time when everyone else is iterating and pushing out updates in a Big Hurry, they're announcing (celebrating?) the fact that they took a year to go from preview to release.
PatrickTulskie 16y ago
It should have come out March 14th, 2009.

34 points by zaatar 16y ago

The Channel 9 video is at: http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE9-RTW-Due-Date-A-Big-Thank-You-MIX11-and-a-Unicorn-Named-Frank http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE9-RTW-Due-Date-A-Bi...

mmastrac 16y ago
Thank god they finally got rid of that Silverlight crap for those channel9 videos. It still doesn't work in Firefox4 though. Not sure if I'm surprised.
- contextfree 16y ago
  They didn't, it still uses Silverlight if Silverlight is installed. It just falls back to other stuff now.
  - mmastrac 16y ago
    It used to demand that Silverlight be installed before playing anything. It no longer does, thankfully. That's what I meant. EDIT: Argh, didn't take long to find an "install Silverlight" while browsing through the HTML5 demos site: http://html5labs.cloudapp.net/WebSockets/ChatDemo/wsdemo.html http://html5labs.cloudapp.net/WebSockets/ChatDemo/wsdemo.htm... Why do they keep doing this?
    - contextfree 16y ago
      IIRC, the Web Sockets implementation was something the WCF team was already experimenting with for their own purposes and originally had not much to do with IE9 or the IE team. Since it was implemented in WCF, obviously it would require a CLR (i.e. Silverlight). Putting it on the HTML5 Labs site is kind of goofy, and the whole HTML5 Labs thing is sort of a dubious PR exercise to begin with, but I guess it does at least show they're experimenting with the Web Sockets protocol.

melling 16y ago

As someone who hates IE, I must say that I'm actually really looking forward to IE9. The "worst" of the major browsers just closed the gap (and surpassed?) with fast JavaScript and gpu acceleration. Hopefully, there's more to come.

nailer 16y ago
No gradients, no transforms, no history. That's just off the top of my head with the stuff I already use.
- mmastrac 16y ago
  Lack of HTML5 history is a big disappointment. This would have been a game-changer for the web - no more #! workarounds.
- Joeri 16y ago
  It does support 2d transforms: http://msdn.microsoft.com/nl-nl/ie/ff468705.aspx#_CSS3_2D_Transforms http://msdn.microsoft.com/nl-nl/ie/ff468705.aspx#_CSS3_2D_Tr... There are ways to use svg to implement scalable gradients: http://css3wizardry.com/2010/10/29/css-gradients-for-ie9/ http://css3wizardry.com/2010/10/29/css-gradients-for-ie9/ . With some clever engineering someone could make a library that automatically converts gradient styles into SVG backgrounds.
  - nailer 16y ago
    Useful to know, but the simple thing I've been working on - a product browser akin to coverflow, with bookmarkable items - needs a 'skew' effect, which is considered a 3D transform.
- pjscott 16y ago
  No websockets, either. That's the thing that irks me the most.
  - Athtar 16y ago

pzxc 16y ago

Is it true that it won't work on Windows XP? I know XP is like a decade old, and I really don't wanna start an upgrade-your-browser-you-noob flamefest, but it seems kinda lame to exclude the people still on XP from having a modern browser and I can't figure out what the rationale might be for that.

mmastrac 16y ago
There's never been a good reason publicly stated, but I imagine they don't want to be seeing as supporting their decade-old OS. Chrome, Firefox and Safari have no problem doing it, so it's very likely a political decision. I think Microsoft has some responsibility to update IE6 on XP, given that they left it out on the market so long and caused an incalculable amount of time to be lost developing for it while the rest of the worst was trying to move on.
- endtime 16y ago
  Well IE7 and IE8 work on XP. Or are you just saying they should try to force the upgrade to IE8?
- zaatar 16y ago
  Actually, no. The good reason that IE9 does not run on Windows XP has been publicly stated for at least an year, if not actually longer. The FAQ on ietestdrive.com [1] answers this question. The short answer is that the Graphics stack that IE9 uses is not available on Windows XP. [1] http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/info/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/Default.html http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/info/FrequentlyAskedQuesti...
  - mmastrac 16y ago
    It's a bogus technical reason. Chrome and Firefox show that GPU acceleration can work on XP: http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/ http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/ http://blog.chromium.org/2010/09/unleashing-gpu-acceleration-on-web.html http://blog.chromium.org/2010/09/unleashing-gpu-acceleration... If Microsoft wanted to support GPU acceleration through an alternate rendering path like two other browsers are doing on XP, they would have done so. I find it more likely to conclude that they just didn't want to support XP and developed a browser GPU acceleration engine that wouldn't support it as a result of this high-level decision.

givan 16y ago

that will be a sad day, another junk launched :(

ramki 16y ago
if you don't like it, don't use it. But please don't be sad. Hope you are not depending on ie's rendering engine.
- WiseWeasel 16y ago
  Maybe he's sad because, like me, he's a web developer who will have to support yet another non-compliant piece of junk browser from Microsoft.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    You don't have to support IE. Just like an iPhone developer doesn't have to support Android. Or an OS X developer doesn't have to support Windows. You give up some market share, but it's a standard tradeoff == more work vs more revenue? There's nothing to be sad about, it's a decision we make everyday. If IE is so painful that the revenue is not worth it, then don't do it. We currently don't support OS X. I'm not sad when Apple ships a new version of OS X. I just know that the 10% of the market that they own is one that we won't support. I'm fine with that, and have been for a while now.
    - teilo 16y ago
      Right. Here's your sales pitch: "Well, sir (or ma'am), your new website will only work with 'Modern' browsers." "I see. And what is a 'Modern' browser?" "Anything but IE." "Ah. Nice meeting with you. I'll keep your quote in mind." No IE support != less revenue. No IE support = no revenue.
    - damoncali 16y ago
      Here's the light at the end of the tunnel: I have a bug tracking app, and can honestly say that IE is an insignificant part of my traffic - comparable to Opera. Granted, it's a technical audience, but I can safely just not support IE. Our day is coming...

woogley 16y ago

Well, there goes any hopes of WebGL. It's a shame, too, the spec was just finalized last week.

27182818284 16y ago

People will debate endlessly whether IE9 is a "modern" browser based on its HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, etc support. The real smoking gun that it still isn't modern is that it doesn't include a spellcheck by default. You can't claim to be doing what users want while ignoring that elephant in the room.

skore 16y ago
Imagine all the people Spelling words properly, just for one day
contextfree 16y ago
My guess is that the real reason for this is that Windows 8 will add a native spellcheck API (technically Vista already did, as part of WPF, but that generally isn't used by consumer applications for various reasons), and in the meantime to avoid future confusion they don't want to implement it separately in IE.

jameskilton 16y ago

Launch, as in end of product, it's "finished", it's in the wild, you're on your own we will now work on IE 10? Or launch like the rest of the software development world now operates and push out updates on a regular basis, with new features and better standards support, leading to something that actually has a chance of competing with the browsers the rest of us love to use? 'Cause I think it was around 2000 that people started realizing that monolithic development and release cycles lead to failed products. Software needs to be, and can be, updated constantly, or it falls behind. If this launch is like all other IE launches, it will be a day we will all look back on with disappointment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Microsoft actually become a modern development house, but I have huge doubts that it could ever happen.

tnorthcutt 16y ago

Exactly twelve months from the first Platform Preview of IE9, on Monday March 14th we will celebrate the developers and designers who are making a more beautiful web for all of us. We will release the final version of Internet Explorer 9 for download beginning at 9 p.m. Pacific. twelve months twelve months twelve months

tnorthcutt 16y ago
I guess I earned the downvotes for the bad attitude. I'm just amazed that in a time when everyone else is iterating and pushing out updates in a Big Hurry, they're announcing (celebrating?) the fact that they took a year to go from preview to release.

PatrickTulskie 16y ago

It should have come out March 14th, 2009.