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There are hundreds of use-cases. It is not important what the use-cases are. - There are two types of developers: Those who use hacking to solve all kinds of ta

There are hundreds of use-cases. It is not important what the use-cases are. - There are two types of developers: Those who use hacking to solve all kinds of tasks that need hundreds of manual steps. And those who never think of automating smaller steps. The second kind of devs can be very good software engineers, but they prefer IDEs instead of tweaking Vim or Emacs. The first kind of dev will look for possiblities to automate repeated steps, opportunities for tweaking, transforming, hacking. For the fun of it.

dan-robertson 7y ago
I think this argument is unfairly dismissive. I think it depends a lot on the sort of software one works with. A main use of awk and other unix tools for me is as-hoc data munging, looking through production logs, taking bits of data from different sources and comparing them. If you make eg gui applications and sell them or work as a contractor developing in-house applications for clients, you probably don’t see a lot of production logs like that or process them that way. Any data that you expect to process ought to go into a database and then you can use sql (where joins work much better than the unix join command and you can use the actual structure of the data instead of trying to tease it out with the smallest simplest code you can think of). You might be using a debugger or backtracks or reproduction in test to deal with/investigate production issues rather than starting with logs. On the other hand, many other companies will have big production systems that run on lots of different virtual machines and produce lots of logs and have issues that are hard to reproduce (or maybe the logs are easier), and have lots of data spread about random places such that it may be easier to do the hacky thing for one-off cases or to prototype or whatever rather than Doing things more thoroughly or properly. And this set up will also lead to tools that are designed to fit into the rest of the unix ETL tack by the way they output or input data. On the second point, I think that even as a die-hard emacs user I wouldn’t recommend that anyone try to use emacs as an ide for something like java (or maybe c++). I’d probably try to use emacs a myself but I think my java-editing experience would be worse than for those people who do it with an IDE. More realistically, I’d try to avoid writing java if at all possible.

dan-robertson 7y ago

I think this argument is unfairly dismissive. I think it depends a lot on the sort of software one works with. A main use of awk and other unix tools for me is as-hoc data munging, looking through production logs, taking bits of data from different sources and comparing them. If you make eg gui applications and sell them or work as a contractor developing in-house applications for clients, you probably don’t see a lot of production logs like that or process them that way. Any data that you expect to process ought to go into a database and then you can use sql (where joins work much better than the unix join command and you can use the actual structure of the data instead of trying to tease it out with the smallest simplest code you can think of). You might be using a debugger or backtracks or reproduction in test to deal with/investigate production issues rather than starting with logs. On the other hand, many other companies will have big production systems that run on lots of different virtual machines and produce lots of logs and have issues that are hard to reproduce (or maybe the logs are easier), and have lots of data spread about random places such that it may be easier to do the hacky thing for one-off cases or to prototype or whatever rather than Doing things more thoroughly or properly. And this set up will also lead to tools that are designed to fit into the rest of the unix ETL tack by the way they output or input data. On the second point, I think that even as a die-hard emacs user I wouldn’t recommend that anyone try to use emacs as an ide for something like java (or maybe c++). I’d probably try to use emacs a myself but I think my java-editing experience would be worse than for those people who do it with an IDE. More realistically, I’d try to avoid writing java if at all possible.