4 ms·

None of that matters one iota. I'm not going to spend valuable time and resources on a non-standard graphics API for a platform with anaemic graphics hardware.

by rleigh 6y ago

None of that matters one iota. I'm not going to spend valuable time and resources on a non-standard graphics API for a platform with anaemic graphics hardware. Instead, I'm going to target Windows and Linux with Vulkan or OpenGL. If I do support MacOS, it will be via MoltenVK, and it will be a second tier platform. From my point of view, by dropping standard OpenGL they have turned their platform into a second-class citizen.

pjmlp 6y ago
Then you will only target Linux. OpenGL and Vulkan only happen to work on Windows via the ICD driver model introduced in OpenGL 1.1, which Microsoft hasn't yet bothered to remove. Instead they aren't supporting it on UWP and Win32 sandbox model, which only allow DirectX. Microsoft's way forward is also to build OpenGL wrappers on top of DirectX like ANGLE. https://github.com/microsoft/angle/wiki https://github.com/microsoft/angle/wiki https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/in-the-works-opencl-and-opengl-mapping-layers-to-directx/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/in-the-works-opencl-a... And then there are the game consoles. Khronos has just messed up providing SDKs that are at the same productivity level as commercial APIs.
- rleigh 6y ago
  So long as the API works, I really don't care about the implementation details. I also don't care about Microsoft's UWP and sandboxing stuff. They might have a desire to take the platform in that direction. But I have no obligation to follow, and if they want to retain application developers they won't be able to simply cut us off. We've always got the option of abandoning Windows entirely if they make it too inconvenient and troublesome to develop for. It's not like we don't have a precedent for abandoning MacOS X as a top tier platform for exactly those reasons.
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    Yes they will, Windows 10X only allows for sandboxed software. "How Windows 10X runs UWP and Win32 apps" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrmrIlgbIc&list=PLWZJrkeLOrbZ3CMHpbglE4NyJSEo-_qhr&index=5&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrmrIlgbIc&list=PLWZJrkeLOr... MSIX https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/msix/overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/msix/overview > Apps that are packaged using MSIX run in a lightweight app container. Yes, Win32 can still choose between both models in current versions, depending on Windows 10X reception, I bet it might eventually change. Sandboxing resistant developers are always free to keep their Windows XP or 7 copy, I guess.
    - wtallis 6y ago
      It's way to early for 10X to be influencing anyone's plans. It's still in the middle of transitioning from a pile of Microsoft's pipe dreams to a product that may or may not bear much resemblance to those original ideas.
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Maybe, lets see.

by rleigh 6y ago

pjmlp 6y ago

Then you will only target Linux. OpenGL and Vulkan only happen to work on Windows via the ICD driver model introduced in OpenGL 1.1, which Microsoft hasn't yet bothered to remove. Instead they aren't supporting it on UWP and Win32 sandbox model, which only allow DirectX. Microsoft's way forward is also to build OpenGL wrappers on top of DirectX like ANGLE. https://github.com/microsoft/angle/wiki https://github.com/microsoft/angle/wiki https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/in-the-works-opencl-and-opengl-mapping-layers-to-directx/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/in-the-works-opencl-a... And then there are the game consoles. Khronos has just messed up providing SDKs that are at the same productivity level as commercial APIs.

rleigh 6y ago
So long as the API works, I really don't care about the implementation details. I also don't care about Microsoft's UWP and sandboxing stuff. They might have a desire to take the platform in that direction. But I have no obligation to follow, and if they want to retain application developers they won't be able to simply cut us off. We've always got the option of abandoning Windows entirely if they make it too inconvenient and troublesome to develop for. It's not like we don't have a precedent for abandoning MacOS X as a top tier platform for exactly those reasons.
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Yes they will, Windows 10X only allows for sandboxed software. "How Windows 10X runs UWP and Win32 apps" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrmrIlgbIc&list=PLWZJrkeLOrbZ3CMHpbglE4NyJSEo-_qhr&index=5&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrmrIlgbIc&list=PLWZJrkeLOr... MSIX https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/msix/overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/msix/overview > Apps that are packaged using MSIX run in a lightweight app container. Yes, Win32 can still choose between both models in current versions, depending on Windows 10X reception, I bet it might eventually change. Sandboxing resistant developers are always free to keep their Windows XP or 7 copy, I guess.
  - wtallis 6y ago
    It's way to early for 10X to be influencing anyone's plans. It's still in the middle of transitioning from a pile of Microsoft's pipe dreams to a product that may or may not bear much resemblance to those original ideas.
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      Maybe, lets see.