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Why do you think it's overkill? What alternative do you propose? Do you not think touting the horn of privacy in this crisis where everybody is unprepared is do

Why do you think it's overkill? What alternative do you propose? Do you not think touting the horn of privacy in this crisis where everybody is unprepared is doing us any good? Why do you think it will remain once this is all over? > FYI the law enforcement, legal system is a complete joke in India. That's just garbage.

objclxt 6y ago
> Do you not think touting the horn of privacy in this crisis where everybody is unprepared is doing us any good? That's a false equivalence, there are much more private contact tracing approaches that exist today, backed by device manufacturers. Governments that aren't using those approaches should justify with actual evidence why they're not appropriate, rather than asking if we won't just think of the children. > Why do you think it will remain once this is all over? Because there is a large body of evidence throughout history that suggests exactly this.
- codegladiator 6y ago
  > should justify with actual evidence why they're not appropriate The justification is incompetent (not trying to insult govt workers here but you know only people who got no private jobs in engineering look towards govt jobs) because the smart people wont join govt jobs because govt jobs don't pay as much. I don't think govt needs to say it out loud because it would change nothing and helps no one.
- eklavya 6y ago
  So we should give all this data to the foreign companies instead of our own elected govt? Because surely they would never abuse it? > Because there is a large body of evidence throughout history that suggests exactly this. Yeah, one govt tried that, people didn't like it and people won. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India)
  - mr_puzzled 6y ago
    > So we should give all this data to the foreign companies instead of our own elected govt? Or give the data to no one and do contact tracing in a privacy preserving way like the one apple and google designed? https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-FAQv1.0.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...
    - eklavya 6y ago
      I might be misunderstand it but reading the document I couldn't see that this doesn't involve providing any data. I don't see a way how this could work without sharing data with authorities. The document seems to imply that the data WILL be shared with public health authorities (govt). So I don't see how this is better. > • Each user will have to make an explicit choice to turn on the technology. It can also be turned off by the user at any time. Ok, I can give you this one, for people who are mandated by law to have this installed, uninstalling is not an option. > • This system does not collect location data from your device, and does not share the identities of other users to each other, Google or Apple. The user controls all data they want to share, and the decision to share it. Yeah, but they have to share it to get any meaningful data, right? > • Bluetooth privacy-preserving beacons rotate every 10-20 minutes, to help prevent tracking. Don't know whether the app has this one. > • Exposure notification is only done on device and under the user's control. In addition people who test positive are not identified by the system to other users, or to Apple or Google. I would be damned if the govt app was exposing identities either. > • The system is only used for contact tracing by public health authorities apps. Sure, that's the whole purpose of the govt app too. > • Google and Apple can disable the exposure notification system on a regional basis when it is no longer needed. Not related to privacy I think.
      - will_raw 6y ago
        There has been questions to apple-google ct too, but I always take any country's gov's actions with skeptism. Especially, when they are not making the details/specs public. Also, have a read: https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-BluetoothSpecificationv1.2.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...
dang 6y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, even when another comment was provocative. It just makes the thread even worse. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

objclxt 6y ago

> Do you not think touting the horn of privacy in this crisis where everybody is unprepared is doing us any good? That's a false equivalence, there are much more private contact tracing approaches that exist today, backed by device manufacturers. Governments that aren't using those approaches should justify with actual evidence why they're not appropriate, rather than asking if we won't just think of the children. > Why do you think it will remain once this is all over? Because there is a large body of evidence throughout history that suggests exactly this.

codegladiator 6y ago
> should justify with actual evidence why they're not appropriate The justification is incompetent (not trying to insult govt workers here but you know only people who got no private jobs in engineering look towards govt jobs) because the smart people wont join govt jobs because govt jobs don't pay as much. I don't think govt needs to say it out loud because it would change nothing and helps no one.
eklavya 6y ago
So we should give all this data to the foreign companies instead of our own elected govt? Because surely they would never abuse it? > Because there is a large body of evidence throughout history that suggests exactly this. Yeah, one govt tried that, people didn't like it and people won. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency_(India)
- mr_puzzled 6y ago
  > So we should give all this data to the foreign companies instead of our own elected govt? Or give the data to no one and do contact tracing in a privacy preserving way like the one apple and google designed? https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-FAQv1.0.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...
  - eklavya 6y ago
    I might be misunderstand it but reading the document I couldn't see that this doesn't involve providing any data. I don't see a way how this could work without sharing data with authorities. The document seems to imply that the data WILL be shared with public health authorities (govt). So I don't see how this is better. > • Each user will have to make an explicit choice to turn on the technology. It can also be turned off by the user at any time. Ok, I can give you this one, for people who are mandated by law to have this installed, uninstalling is not an option. > • This system does not collect location data from your device, and does not share the identities of other users to each other, Google or Apple. The user controls all data they want to share, and the decision to share it. Yeah, but they have to share it to get any meaningful data, right? > • Bluetooth privacy-preserving beacons rotate every 10-20 minutes, to help prevent tracking. Don't know whether the app has this one. > • Exposure notification is only done on device and under the user's control. In addition people who test positive are not identified by the system to other users, or to Apple or Google. I would be damned if the govt app was exposing identities either. > • The system is only used for contact tracing by public health authorities apps. Sure, that's the whole purpose of the govt app too. > • Google and Apple can disable the exposure notification system on a regional basis when it is no longer needed. Not related to privacy I think.
    - will_raw 6y ago
      There has been questions to apple-google ct too, but I always take any country's gov's actions with skeptism. Especially, when they are not making the details/specs public. Also, have a read: https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/current/static/contact-tracing/pdf/ExposureNotification-BluetoothSpecificationv1.2.pdf https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/covid19/cu...

dang 6y ago

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN, even when another comment was provocative. It just makes the thread even worse. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. Note this one: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."