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Re point 1, there has been a major change in pubs in the U.K. All are trying to migrate into dining, as the margins on alcohol have fallen. Those that didn’t

Re point 1, there has been a major change in pubs in the U.K. All are trying to migrate into dining, as the margins on alcohol have fallen. Those that didn’t become restaurants have basically gone bust. There are no longer any normal classic pubs in England! I know a couple that tried to rejuvenate a failing “free house” in a tourist hotspot and failed. Passing the spot recently I saw it is now a pub restaurant like all the rest. I also once talked with the owner bartender of a very trendy micro brewery pub. The beer was their hook but the money came from food and the stables converted into b&b. It doesn’t invalidate your point at all, I’m just adding detail to a very varied landscape.

andybak 7y ago
> There are no longer any normal classic pubs in England! A slight exaggeration, no? Whilst it's uncommon to find a pub that doesn't do food, I can think of several not far from me. (just outside Brighton). And "a pub that does food" is still quite far from being a restaurant. Some only do food on Sundays, some have limited menus run by guest kitchens and some get the food cooked by a nearby takeaway with whom they partner.
- willvarfar 7y ago
  “Pubs that do food” is the kind of thing I’m talking about! :) It starts with Sunday lunches, and slips into weeknights. It starts with order at the bar, and slips into little “reserved for diners” signs on most of the tables. It starts with the barman working the sandwich toaster and slides into teenagers in white blouses and knee length black skirts with name tags saying “trainee” asking you to wait to be seated as you enter. Pubs used to be adult domains where people went to drink and chat in the evenings. Now pubs put playgrounds and bouncy castles in the car park to bring in families to dine. Of course there might be some classic true pubs left? Perhaps someone should make an app ... arrrgh!
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    When I was very young, in the late 1980s, my parents regularly took me to two different pubs. Both had outdoor equipment (slides, climbing frame, sandpit etc) for children. One served food in the "lounge bar". When I visit London, it's not difficult to find a pub with no children and no food. Things have changed, but you are exaggerating it.
  - teddyuk 7y ago
    Yes let’s get back to the good old days where the men went to the pub and any bloody women could go to the saloon bar .... arrrgh!
  - jen20 7y ago
    My own local pub doesn’t do food, and (was) incredibly popular. CAMRA has a good guide to these places!
  - mgkimsal 7y ago
    I'd think the Rovers Return would count, no? They do the odd hotpot, and they do event catering, but other than that it's pretty much just drinks and darts ;)
    - ironic_ali 7y ago
      > it's pretty much just drinks and darts ;) And drama!!
remarkEon 7y ago
That's fascinating, because I've seen almost the exact opposite where I am (west coast USA). A lot of places where I am have transformed into take-out only or take-out + on-demand booze. Or even just take-out booze, with cocktail kits. The places that were mainly food (my favorite brunch place that I'd take everyone to who visits went belly up in early April) have all either closed down or tried to innovate to sell their food or alcohol as a pick up or delivery service. Semi high-end establishments that sold no food have innovated to sell these elaborate cocktail packages that will probably at least keep the lights on until this is over. At least, that's what I hope.
- dmurray 7y ago
  He meant the trend over the last 5-10 years has been for pubs to become restaurants, not over the last month or two.
somewhereoutth 7y ago
I once worked in a central London pub that wasn't doing very well - however they had the lease on all 5 floors, including the landlord's apartment at the top. They opened one of the staff rooms on the second floor as a hostel dorm with a couple of beds, filled them no problem. By the time I left the entire building, apart from the bar itself on the ground floor, was hostel beds. £20-£30/ppn, 90 beds, nearly always 100% occupancy - a license to print money! Sadly Covid19 will have crushed them I suspect.
DaveSapien 7y ago
Just to chime in here on point on there being no normal classic pubs. It is the case many pubs have become family friendly, but only where families are going. Places where families dont go, the old man pubs still exist in great numbers. The classic no windows 'bunker' as it where. Its easy to see the extinction of the classic pub, but in more poverty stricken areas in the UK the bunker is still prevalent.
- Angostura 7y ago
  Yup - plenty of flat-roofed pubs still out there.
downtide 7y ago
My local does not do food. But you can bring it in. So that is simply not true. However, I do know some pubs that have mainly tried to become restaurants. We once tried to run a small cafe/restaurant, with only about 8-10 tables. And it ultimately failed. After a few months we ended funneling the business to booze and coffee, with as fast a turnover as possible, which was not what the initial place was about. We were an original organic veggie food outlet. Raw ingredients were expensive. This shattered previous dreams about running my own. But given a cheap ground rent, I might be tempted to give it a go again, but not really for profit. Totally and utterly fried me, very long days, mostly spent at the sink. Not glamorous at all. The co-owners ultimately had to trade up ethics and risk their homes. We might have done better if deliveroo had been about then.

andybak 7y ago

> There are no longer any normal classic pubs in England! A slight exaggeration, no? Whilst it's uncommon to find a pub that doesn't do food, I can think of several not far from me. (just outside Brighton). And "a pub that does food" is still quite far from being a restaurant. Some only do food on Sundays, some have limited menus run by guest kitchens and some get the food cooked by a nearby takeaway with whom they partner.

willvarfar 7y ago
“Pubs that do food” is the kind of thing I’m talking about! :) It starts with Sunday lunches, and slips into weeknights. It starts with order at the bar, and slips into little “reserved for diners” signs on most of the tables. It starts with the barman working the sandwich toaster and slides into teenagers in white blouses and knee length black skirts with name tags saying “trainee” asking you to wait to be seated as you enter. Pubs used to be adult domains where people went to drink and chat in the evenings. Now pubs put playgrounds and bouncy castles in the car park to bring in families to dine. Of course there might be some classic true pubs left? Perhaps someone should make an app ... arrrgh!
- Symbiote 7y ago
  When I was very young, in the late 1980s, my parents regularly took me to two different pubs. Both had outdoor equipment (slides, climbing frame, sandpit etc) for children. One served food in the "lounge bar". When I visit London, it's not difficult to find a pub with no children and no food. Things have changed, but you are exaggerating it.
- teddyuk 7y ago
  Yes let’s get back to the good old days where the men went to the pub and any bloody women could go to the saloon bar .... arrrgh!
- jen20 7y ago
  My own local pub doesn’t do food, and (was) incredibly popular. CAMRA has a good guide to these places!
- mgkimsal 7y ago
  I'd think the Rovers Return would count, no? They do the odd hotpot, and they do event catering, but other than that it's pretty much just drinks and darts ;)
  - ironic_ali 7y ago
    > it's pretty much just drinks and darts ;) And drama!!

remarkEon 7y ago

That's fascinating, because I've seen almost the exact opposite where I am (west coast USA). A lot of places where I am have transformed into take-out only or take-out + on-demand booze. Or even just take-out booze, with cocktail kits. The places that were mainly food (my favorite brunch place that I'd take everyone to who visits went belly up in early April) have all either closed down or tried to innovate to sell their food or alcohol as a pick up or delivery service. Semi high-end establishments that sold no food have innovated to sell these elaborate cocktail packages that will probably at least keep the lights on until this is over. At least, that's what I hope.

dmurray 7y ago
He meant the trend over the last 5-10 years has been for pubs to become restaurants, not over the last month or two.

somewhereoutth 7y ago

I once worked in a central London pub that wasn't doing very well - however they had the lease on all 5 floors, including the landlord's apartment at the top. They opened one of the staff rooms on the second floor as a hostel dorm with a couple of beds, filled them no problem. By the time I left the entire building, apart from the bar itself on the ground floor, was hostel beds. £20-£30/ppn, 90 beds, nearly always 100% occupancy - a license to print money! Sadly Covid19 will have crushed them I suspect.

DaveSapien 7y ago

Just to chime in here on point on there being no normal classic pubs. It is the case many pubs have become family friendly, but only where families are going. Places where families dont go, the old man pubs still exist in great numbers. The classic no windows 'bunker' as it where. Its easy to see the extinction of the classic pub, but in more poverty stricken areas in the UK the bunker is still prevalent.

Angostura 7y ago
Yup - plenty of flat-roofed pubs still out there.

downtide 7y ago

My local does not do food. But you can bring it in. So that is simply not true. However, I do know some pubs that have mainly tried to become restaurants. We once tried to run a small cafe/restaurant, with only about 8-10 tables. And it ultimately failed. After a few months we ended funneling the business to booze and coffee, with as fast a turnover as possible, which was not what the initial place was about. We were an original organic veggie food outlet. Raw ingredients were expensive. This shattered previous dreams about running my own. But given a cheap ground rent, I might be tempted to give it a go again, but not really for profit. Totally and utterly fried me, very long days, mostly spent at the sink. Not glamorous at all. The co-owners ultimately had to trade up ethics and risk their homes. We might have done better if deliveroo had been about then.