3 ms·

I will proselytize Beat Saber until the day I die. I have played hundreds of hours of video games in 2020, which reflects the time spent since I was 8 playing D

by 013a 6y ago

I will proselytize Beat Saber until the day I die. I have played hundreds of hours of video games in 2020, which reflects the time spent since I was 8 playing Donkey Kong on the Super Nintendo. After writing this, I'm probably going to jump into some FF7R. In the morning, I'm going to log into Animal Crossing and do some chores around the island. Beat Saber is the most fun game I have ever played. No qualifiers. No shifty language. Nothing else is even in the same order of magnitude as Beat Saber. I dare to even call it a video game, because very few other games even possess the language to compete with it. The combat in FF7R is visceral, but you're not actually swinging Cloud's sword. The loop in Animal Crossing is entrancing, but it doesn't become your entire world like when you put a headset on. Even other VR games, which have that language they can use to tell their gameplay, often feel like the VR experience is bolted onto something which could, and maybe should, be non-VR. You often fight with the game; the game transplants you into a world, not just on a screen, but every degree surrounding you, yet you're limited in how you move, you're limited in how the game allows you to interact, nothing feels natural, and you soon adapt your actions with what the game wants. I am solidly in the camp that, honestly, VR will not become a household item like a game console is. Even with headsets priced about at the level of a game console, like the Rift, the platform has too many downfalls. Startlingly few games work well in VR. Even an experience like Half Life Alyx, the pinnacle of VR technology, feels like a shell of a game like Half Life 2. Its different. It can't tell a strong story, because players don't generally spend more than 30-90 minutes in VR at a time. It can't really innovate in puzzle design, because movement and viewport control is so heavy that it becomes tiring if you ask the player to do too much. The mechanics feel incredible. No one enters HL:A for the first time, loads that pistol, and doesn't have this HUGE GRIN on their face. But, its also a novelty; it wears off far too quickly once you begin realizing how many fundamentally core things Valve had to sacrifice to make the game work at all. Nearly every game in VR is, bluntly, a tech demo. The platform is still figuring out if it is viable. Of the top selling VR games on Steam, #7 is a sim game which models a hyper-realistic anime girl, allowing you to mess with her clothes in a predictable anime way, and #10 is Skyrim. Of course, HL:A and Beat Saber are #1 and #2, but roughly this state is where VR was six years ago. It hasn't really evolved, and I'm not convinced HL:A was the catalyst I think Valve is hoping it is. But, maybe I'm wrong. I will say this: There is no price you can pay for a VR headset that does not make Beat Saber worth it (within your means, of course). It is that good. I have an Index ($1000); beyond spending an hour or two in as many games as I can, 100% of my time is spent in Beat Saber, and I do not regret the purchase. Everything else VR has to offer is just icing. But this, a platform, does not make.

Taek 6y ago
Games that do a good job of keeping the arcade format are a lot more immersive. Fact is, VR today can only put you in a single room. So the entire game needs to be build around that constraint to maintain immersion. Space Pirate Trainer is another game that did a really good job of this. Before Beat Saber, that was easily my favorite, though wow Beat Saber is _so good_. Blarp is another game that did a great job of immersing you into a single room and making the most of the mechanics. More "full" games don't work as well, because they have to figure out some way to transport you around the world without breaking immersion or causing nausea. And I don't think anyone has pulled it off well. I am confident we will have more games that stand up to Beat Saber. It's a platform that requires discarding a lot of the strengths that video games have in order to work well, and developers have to re-learn a lot more from scratch than I think anyone realized when the platforms started.
- baby 6y ago
  > So the entire game needs to be build around that constraint to maintain immersion I haven't tried the new Half Life, so I'm wondering if you're right.
  - 013a 6y ago
    HL:A definitely does more with something resembling an adventure formula akin to the traditional HL games, versus most other VR titles. Per my original comment; I think I have to consider it as experimenting, and it's only partially successful. (low-level spoilers) There's one moment early on where you're asked to solve a vorgon puzzle in a drainage ditch. Every person I've asked who has been through this area disliked it, and I haven't found anyone who solved it legitimately. Its confusing. It has parallax/perspective elements which ask you to move around a large area, position yourself perfectly, and possibly even crane your neck in the right way to get an angle on what is the intended solution. But, movement sucks in any non-room-style VR game. You can't use the joystick to just move your character, like you would in a non-VR game, because it causes unreal motion sickness in, like, 100% of users (this is available as option. its an experience that i think everyone should try; I had no idea I could get motion sickness until I did, but I was literally falling over). Instead, you press the joystick in the direction you want, a targeting beam pops up, and you "teleport" to the desired location. This sucks. Its imprecise, its slow, and it makes you feel, to some degree, like you're actually watching a powerpoint presentation of the game. And, head yaw can also suck in VR. This may be surprising; its the entire point of VR. But, depending on whether your headset has a tether, and how big your play area is, many VR players are stuck stationary and with, maybe, 180 degrees of freedom in front of them. In one of these setups, you cant naturally look behind you; you have to rotate in-game, which calls back to all of the negatives that movement itself has. But even the in-game rotation is in-precise; in HL:A, it jumps by roughly 60 degree increments. Imagine there's something 45 degrees to your left you want to center; you can either turn your head 45 degrees left to center it (uncomfortable), rotate your body 45 degrees left (scary), or rotate in-game 60 degrees left, followed by rotating your head 15 degrees right or body 15 degrees right. In small play areas, the body rotations are a slippery slope that eventually ends in you being turned around, contacting furniture, or getting tangled in the headset tether. This is, at least for me, always front of mind; I can't escape the reality that my play area isn't large. So, you end up with these nearly (only nearly) subconscious calculations involving how many times you need to rotate in-game to make neck rotations less uncomfortable. This is the problem space that any non-room VR game has, and will have, to solve. It is unsolved. I believe it is unsolvable. Even if you can get the player/object interactions down to perfection (this is insanely difficult, and different for every game; HL:A is the first "complex" VR game I've seen get close), even if you can craft a story and world that is both compelling, and works well with the intrinsic movement limitations VR has (no one has done this yet; again, HL:A gets close), even if you can remove slideshow-teleportation movement without motion sickness (I believe this is impossible without something like an omni-directional treadmill); you still run up against most players just not having the space for room-scale VR & N-degree freedom of movement. VR is filled with technical challenges, and every technical challenge developers have to solve limits their ability to be artists. This is why arcade-style games are the showcase piece for VR. And, in my opinion, will remain that way for a good, long while.

by 013a 6y ago

Taek 6y ago

Games that do a good job of keeping the arcade format are a lot more immersive. Fact is, VR today can only put you in a single room. So the entire game needs to be build around that constraint to maintain immersion. Space Pirate Trainer is another game that did a really good job of this. Before Beat Saber, that was easily my favorite, though wow Beat Saber is _so good_. Blarp is another game that did a great job of immersing you into a single room and making the most of the mechanics. More "full" games don't work as well, because they have to figure out some way to transport you around the world without breaking immersion or causing nausea. And I don't think anyone has pulled it off well. I am confident we will have more games that stand up to Beat Saber. It's a platform that requires discarding a lot of the strengths that video games have in order to work well, and developers have to re-learn a lot more from scratch than I think anyone realized when the platforms started.

baby 6y ago
> So the entire game needs to be build around that constraint to maintain immersion I haven't tried the new Half Life, so I'm wondering if you're right.
- 013a 6y ago
  HL:A definitely does more with something resembling an adventure formula akin to the traditional HL games, versus most other VR titles. Per my original comment; I think I have to consider it as experimenting, and it's only partially successful. (low-level spoilers) There's one moment early on where you're asked to solve a vorgon puzzle in a drainage ditch. Every person I've asked who has been through this area disliked it, and I haven't found anyone who solved it legitimately. Its confusing. It has parallax/perspective elements which ask you to move around a large area, position yourself perfectly, and possibly even crane your neck in the right way to get an angle on what is the intended solution. But, movement sucks in any non-room-style VR game. You can't use the joystick to just move your character, like you would in a non-VR game, because it causes unreal motion sickness in, like, 100% of users (this is available as option. its an experience that i think everyone should try; I had no idea I could get motion sickness until I did, but I was literally falling over). Instead, you press the joystick in the direction you want, a targeting beam pops up, and you "teleport" to the desired location. This sucks. Its imprecise, its slow, and it makes you feel, to some degree, like you're actually watching a powerpoint presentation of the game. And, head yaw can also suck in VR. This may be surprising; its the entire point of VR. But, depending on whether your headset has a tether, and how big your play area is, many VR players are stuck stationary and with, maybe, 180 degrees of freedom in front of them. In one of these setups, you cant naturally look behind you; you have to rotate in-game, which calls back to all of the negatives that movement itself has. But even the in-game rotation is in-precise; in HL:A, it jumps by roughly 60 degree increments. Imagine there's something 45 degrees to your left you want to center; you can either turn your head 45 degrees left to center it (uncomfortable), rotate your body 45 degrees left (scary), or rotate in-game 60 degrees left, followed by rotating your head 15 degrees right or body 15 degrees right. In small play areas, the body rotations are a slippery slope that eventually ends in you being turned around, contacting furniture, or getting tangled in the headset tether. This is, at least for me, always front of mind; I can't escape the reality that my play area isn't large. So, you end up with these nearly (only nearly) subconscious calculations involving how many times you need to rotate in-game to make neck rotations less uncomfortable. This is the problem space that any non-room VR game has, and will have, to solve. It is unsolved. I believe it is unsolvable. Even if you can get the player/object interactions down to perfection (this is insanely difficult, and different for every game; HL:A is the first "complex" VR game I've seen get close), even if you can craft a story and world that is both compelling, and works well with the intrinsic movement limitations VR has (no one has done this yet; again, HL:A gets close), even if you can remove slideshow-teleportation movement without motion sickness (I believe this is impossible without something like an omni-directional treadmill); you still run up against most players just not having the space for room-scale VR & N-degree freedom of movement. VR is filled with technical challenges, and every technical challenge developers have to solve limits their ability to be artists. This is why arcade-style games are the showcase piece for VR. And, in my opinion, will remain that way for a good, long while.