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>It’s about an ever expanding take-over of userspace by a single module, which is not the Unix way. You confuse Systemd the init system with Systemd the projec

>It’s about an ever expanding take-over of userspace by a single module, which is not the Unix way. You confuse Systemd the init system with Systemd the project. The Systemd project can be described as "GNU coreutils but for low-level system components". People hear about all the tools that the Systemd project maintains and think that all that functionality is built into the init system, when the reality it's >50 separate binaries, the majority of which (like systemd-boot or systemd-resolved) are completely optional and aren't even installed by most distributions. And while I understand that some parts, like journald, are not so independent - it's still not "a single module" in a way that prevents it from being unix-y. The Unix philosophy is about separation of concerns, not having a bunch of interchangable options for low-level system components.

stouset 7y ago
You know, I had to integrate with `journald` a bit ago and I was prepared for a nightmare after all the ruckus raised about systemd. And you know what? It’s fantastic. The API is generally well-designed (if not without a few sharp corners) and the whole thing is incredibly well thought out. Sure, plain text logs let you use standard UNIX tools. But doing so sucks. God help you if there’s a newline in your logs or if you have to ensure that you iterate over all the logs even across restarts or if you need to parse logs back out from text into the underlying attributes.
- pnako 7y ago
  Next, have all the settings in some sort of central database. And in 20 years, Red Hat will have finally finished re-inventing Windows NT on top of the Linux kernel.
  - zenlot 7y ago
    Have you ever worked with IBMs AIX? It has ODM and it’s amazing. Systemd is going to the right direction.
    - pnako 7y ago
      I'm not saying it's the wrong direction, it's just funny to observe.
wrycoder 7y ago
I take your point, but it’s way too time consuming to extract the tentacles of the modules I don’t want from the OS and fix problems as new releases come out. So, I use Devuan on my servers. I don’t want to risk a rolling release distro being auto-updated - I like a periodic release that is auto security patched. Void is great for a laptop, where you care about video and music. Yes, I’ve used OpenBSD. It’s great, but not for me atm.

stouset 7y ago

You know, I had to integrate with `journald` a bit ago and I was prepared for a nightmare after all the ruckus raised about systemd. And you know what? It’s fantastic. The API is generally well-designed (if not without a few sharp corners) and the whole thing is incredibly well thought out. Sure, plain text logs let you use standard UNIX tools. But doing so sucks. God help you if there’s a newline in your logs or if you have to ensure that you iterate over all the logs even across restarts or if you need to parse logs back out from text into the underlying attributes.

pnako 7y ago
Next, have all the settings in some sort of central database. And in 20 years, Red Hat will have finally finished re-inventing Windows NT on top of the Linux kernel.
- zenlot 7y ago
  Have you ever worked with IBMs AIX? It has ODM and it’s amazing. Systemd is going to the right direction.
  - pnako 7y ago
    I'm not saying it's the wrong direction, it's just funny to observe.

wrycoder 7y ago

I take your point, but it’s way too time consuming to extract the tentacles of the modules I don’t want from the OS and fix problems as new releases come out. So, I use Devuan on my servers. I don’t want to risk a rolling release distro being auto-updated - I like a periodic release that is auto security patched. Void is great for a laptop, where you care about video and music. Yes, I’ve used OpenBSD. It’s great, but not for me atm.