5 ms·

It tries to do too much, badly, and with an air of entitlement around intentionally breaking things. Change is good, so let's change away from systemd.

by yarrel 6y ago

thawaway1837 6y ago
If someone is able to create something that is half as good as systemd then distros will switch time it. The thing is that systemd solves a lot of problems for distros in a good enough way (frankly, currently in a way that is better than any existing alternative) that they are happy to have systemd deal with those issues while they focus on the stuff the distro makers are interested in.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > If someone is able to create something that is half as good as systemd then distros will switch time it. Not a given, since one of the issues with systemd is its integrations. Replacing init now requires you to replace your system logging and session manager, at a minimum, as well as replace all your service files.
  - the_why_of_y 6y ago
    systemd-logind is optional and you would be able to use ConsoleKit instead if anybody had maintained it in the last 5 years. Unlike e.g. upstart in its native mode, systemd can run SysV init scripts. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/233468/how-does-systemd-use-etc-init-d-scripts https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/233468/how-does-sys...
    - JdeBP 6y ago
      By "system logging" yjftsjthsd-h was referring to systemd-journald, not systemd-logind.
      - the_why_of_y 6y ago
        True, but on that point xe was correct because it's the one part of systemd that is neither PID1 nor optional; I was assuming session manager referred to systemd-logind.
- Brian_K_White 6y ago
  What is desireable to a distro maintainer is offten not what is desireable to a user or admin. Systemd favors the distro maintainer and cloud application service provider, and maybe the appliance manufacturer. It's the exact opposite of a useful tool empowering the the individual.
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    As an admin and desktop user I like systemd. I have to write less config and less boilerplate code to shore up dependencies across networking, mounts, and things like DNS than I did back in the sysv days. That time saving enables me to get on with other, more useful things.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    As a lowly JS developer, I have had a positive experience with systemd. One service file and it handles logging and process management. Better than the insane options the JS community cooked up IMO.

It tries to do too much, badly, and with an air of entitlement around intentionally breaking things. Change is good, so let's change away from systemd.

by yarrel 6y ago

It tries to do too much, badly, and with an air of entitlement around intentionally breaking things. Change is good, so let's change away from systemd.

thawaway1837 6y ago

If someone is able to create something that is half as good as systemd then distros will switch time it. The thing is that systemd solves a lot of problems for distros in a good enough way (frankly, currently in a way that is better than any existing alternative) that they are happy to have systemd deal with those issues while they focus on the stuff the distro makers are interested in.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
> If someone is able to create something that is half as good as systemd then distros will switch time it. Not a given, since one of the issues with systemd is its integrations. Replacing init now requires you to replace your system logging and session manager, at a minimum, as well as replace all your service files.
- the_why_of_y 6y ago
  systemd-logind is optional and you would be able to use ConsoleKit instead if anybody had maintained it in the last 5 years. Unlike e.g. upstart in its native mode, systemd can run SysV init scripts. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/233468/how-does-systemd-use-etc-init-d-scripts https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/233468/how-does-sys...
  - JdeBP 6y ago
    By "system logging" yjftsjthsd-h was referring to systemd-journald, not systemd-logind.
    - the_why_of_y 6y ago
      True, but on that point xe was correct because it's the one part of systemd that is neither PID1 nor optional; I was assuming session manager referred to systemd-logind.
Brian_K_White 6y ago
What is desireable to a distro maintainer is offten not what is desireable to a user or admin. Systemd favors the distro maintainer and cloud application service provider, and maybe the appliance manufacturer. It's the exact opposite of a useful tool empowering the the individual.
- deadbunny 6y ago
  As an admin and desktop user I like systemd. I have to write less config and less boilerplate code to shore up dependencies across networking, mounts, and things like DNS than I did back in the sysv days. That time saving enables me to get on with other, more useful things.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  As a lowly JS developer, I have had a positive experience with systemd. One service file and it handles logging and process management. Better than the insane options the JS community cooked up IMO.