8 ms·

WebOS will be on 'every HP PC' shipping next year, says CEO

127 points by BvS 16y ago

cryptoz 16y ago
I'll be blown away if HP is actually the first company to put their mobile os on a full desktop computer. I always imagined I would love running something like Android on a desktop; easy to use for everyone, no worries about viruses or software updates, nice modern UI design...really, it's a wonder that these machines don't work like that already. I can't believe I'm rooting for HP on this one, but I sure hope this works and I hope it kicks ass.
- jrubyer 16y ago
  Interesting times we live in..
- apl 16y ago
  > no worries about viruses or software updates ?
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    Fair point. But that's the way it's supposed to be. I guess my comment might seem humorously ignorant given the current Android situation, but it'd be tough to argue that it's not directly in Google's interest to get all that fixed up. On the other hand, it's not in Microsoft's interest to make software updates easy or viruses to go away. They're side problems that other companies deal with. HP's webOS should be more like Android than Windows, at least in the user experience philosophy.
    - recoiledsnake 16y ago
      >On the other hand, it's not in Microsoft's interest to make software updates easy or viruses to go away. Huh, why not? How easier updates should get? If set to automatic, they're almost done Chrome style (except for the reboots GRR). And what about MSE? >HP's webOS should be more like Android than Windows With Windows, it gets updated instantly whichever OEM built your PC. With Android. it can take upto a year after getting released, or never come out at all.
      - cryptoz 16y ago
        > Huh, why not? Business. Look at IE6. Microsoft can't force system-wide updates for all their customers, so nearly 0 customers get dramatic software improvements. Of course, everyone gets security updates. > With Windows, it gets updated instantly whichever OEM built your PC. With Android. it can take upto a year after getting released, or never come out at all. This isn't really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. I understand that right now, OEMs aren't updating Android frequently. I meant more user software updates; my Android apps seem to get updates every week that add features, fix bugs, etc. This process is streamlined and automatic. This is not true with traditional desktop operating systems (aside from most Linux distros).
        wvenable 16y ago
        Microsoft could simply add an automatic update service right into the operating system, similar to how they have MSI for installations, and then apps would be updated similarly. It's quite possible they're actually working on something like that -- updates seem to get better and better all the time.
        cryptoz 16y ago
        For at least the last 15 years, there has been no central way to upgrade user software on Microsoft Windows. Today, in 2011, there is no way to do this. Maybe it's coming eventually, sure. But again, these points are seriously minor issues compared to what I'm trying to suggest: The "mobile" OS space is consistently more user-friendly than the desktop space. Maybe desktops can catch up. Maybe MS is working magic behind the scenes. Forgive me if I'm pessimistic here. I find it far more likely that there's a slow, worldwide shift to "mobile" OSs on all computers. It'll probably resemble some sort of iOS/Android/webOS future spawn, or something. I don't know. The automatic software updates was merely an example to show where "mobile" excels and "desktop" fails. There are many others, and even those this example may change I feel my point is still made.
        wvenable 16y ago
kilian 16y ago
Maybe they can do this for their printers, too... ;)
- Hoff 16y ago
  That might have had a ;) with it, but (if that was supposed to be a joke) you might want to read some of the fodder from last year: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/05/hp-introducing-the-webos-printer.ars http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/05/hp-introducing-... HP did appear to be (per Mr Hurd's comments back around the time of the Palm acquisition) considering using WebOS in their printers.
gfodor 16y ago
It will be so great if HP gets its groove back. It's really sad to see one of the great American companies flounder for so long. Ever since Carly merged it with Compaq they've been basically stagnant, IMHO, I think WebOS might really set them up for a big power play against Apple over the next few years.
- nopassrecover 16y ago
  The only PC I've ever hated was a HP. Overpriced for poor parts, slow as hell for its advertised purposes and using their provided software, and when parts broke I had to pay for special HP parts because they used custom sizing and screws.
  - jbrennan 16y ago
    Sounds a lot like Apple right before they bought NeXT.
  - regularfry 16y ago
    Interestingly, my current favourite machine is an HP. But it's a business microserver, not a consumer desktop.
  - jamii 16y ago
    I've had good experiences with high-end hp laptops (HP Envy 13, 15). Beautiful and reliable without the Apple markup.
  - PostOnce 16y ago
    They also come loaded with bloatware, and the cases are super-cramped and leave no room for upgrades.
- yardie 16y ago
  I just like to say that some of HPs offerings are really well done. Just like Apple they can't make a decent computer <$500. Unlike Apple, they'll happily take your money to prove it. I've held the 13" Envy and it could give a Macbook Pro a run. Also, their dm1z laptop comes in at half the price of a Macbook Air and is quite impressive from the reviews I've seen. I was tempted to get one but they are sold out. As a WebOS developer I think most people don't know what they are missing. It's really a beautiful OS (far better than Android, and better in some respects to iOS) I hope it continues to improve. And now that the designer behind it as at Google (Matias Duarte), Android users will be in for a great surprise.
aschwartz18 16y ago
This is crazy! Say goodbye to HP. Who will be their client base. Google will beat them at the simple platform of straight to the internet! I have the Google Chrome CR-48 and its my first choice to surf the internet. When there is now an Android phone running Linux when connected to a laptop shell, HP is doing the opposite!
- danssig 16y ago
  "What I like/think" != "What everyone likes/thinks". This is hardly "say goodbye to HP" material (besides to you apparently).
  - aschwartz18 16y ago
    Please explain what would make anyone buy this over Windows, Mac OSX or Google Chrome???
hakl 16y ago
I can't wait to see the implementation. Maybe they'll do something interesting like making use of Cygwin or virtualization.
pragmatic 16y ago
I believe it means the PC's would run _BOTH_. > every HP PC being able to run WebOS and MIcrosoft Windows as an integrated experience in 2012 I have an HP touch screen laptop/tablet. It has a mode where you can boot into a "light" OS that just has a web browser. BTW, I've never used it. > Instant Web is an instant on software solution that allows users to quickly and easily get to a browser, an IM client, and their media in a secure, fast booting environment. I believe its based on Splashtop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop
raganwald 16y ago
Ok, I know I need another coffee, so I apologise in advance for being the Grinch here, but... This is pure CEO puffery. When will these guys get it? When will they start looking up to Steve Jobs instead of treating him like a guy who just happened to get lucky eight times (Apple II, Macintosh, Pixar, Macintosh again, iPod, iTMS, iPhone, App Store, iPad)? Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. He might talk about what will ship in the next sixty days if there is an SDK he is shipping to developers today. Steve does not talk about Apple investing in R&D. Steve invests in R&D. Talking about the future is the action of a person interested in how he looks and sounds, rather than the actions of a person interested in how the company performs. Steve ships. Leo had better spend less time with his PR people and more time with his engineers. I have nothing against shipping WebOS on every HP PC next year. But please, Leo, just fucking do it. Talk to your engineers, not to me.
- jarek 16y ago
  > Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. Nah, he just talks about where he thinks the entire industry is heading and post-what era we are entering at the moment. Come on.
  - raganwald 16y ago
    You're right about that, +1. Personally, I can live with CEOs of all stripes talking about or even writing books at a very high or abstract level about "The Road Ahead." It's puffery, but it doesn't masquerade as management. It's just a guy (like me) making predictions about the future. My vituperation is reserved for those CEOs who pretend that they're making product announcements or strategic direction announcements when they're vaporous or non-actionable. Maybe WebOS will be on every PC next year. Maybe not, and if we try to get Leo to eat his Claim Chowder, he'll say that "new information has come to light that caused HP to make new decisions." Puffing about the company's specific products (see also: Playbook) is really bad. But you are absolutely right that they're both puffery. Different kinds of puffery, IMO, but still puffery.
    - 16y ago
danlove 16y ago
There are two ways this could go, using WebOS as an instant-on OS. Or some form of framework running within Windows to allow WebOS applications to be run, with notifications being forwarded over Wi-Fi from WebOS devices. Remember the new Enyo framework was actually demonstrated running within Google Chrome. Either way this could be a boast to the developer eco-system, and reduce the cost per HP PC.
jdub 16y ago
First thing: Don't assume that this means they're going to replace Windows! :-) Besides the guts of the OS which talks to the hardware (a very slick Linux build) on webOS phones, the platform is basically just HTML, CSS and JavaScript. It has always been easy to run and debug applications in Chromium. You can download the SDK today and run an x86 build of webOS in VirtualBox. If you haven't played with webOS before, I urge you to try it. Web developers who care about mobile will go absolutely bananas for it, and their new framework 'Enyo' is an even better experience for developers. Here's a blog post about webOS I wrote quite a while back: http://bethesignal.org/blog/2010/06/07/why-im-excited-about-palms-webos/ http://bethesignal.org/blog/2010/06/07/why-im-excited-about-...
modernerd 16y ago
A shame that HP are coupling webOS with HP PCs, instead of putting webOS on the Web, where it might better thrive and spread. With webOS on the Web, Pre3 and TouchPad owners could log in at webos.me (or similar) from any WebKit browser and see their apps and data pre-synced; isn't that a better vision for a company that 'believes the Web is the future'? HP's new Enyo SDK already allows developers to build apps for WebKit-based browsers that resize for desktop, tablet, and mobile screens[1]; it is a joy to use and targeting multiple screen sizes works great, so it feels like a missed opportunity that webOS developers will spend their time building apps in a WebKit browser, but be unable to publish them for others to use in a WebKit browser too. If they're trying to attract developers -- the Web offers a much larger userbase than HP machines ever will. I think it worth sacrificing desktop and laptop sales to build mobile sales and create a healthy future for webOS. [1]: http://www.precentral.net/hp-posts-enyo-development-walkthrough http://www.precentral.net/hp-posts-enyo-development-walkthro...
- ryanwatkins 16y ago
  > HP are coupling webOS with HP PCs, instead of putting webOS on the Web There is no reason to believe they will not also do this. Use the service architecture to allow Enyo development to expose device specific system services (telephony, etc). But license (open source?) Enyo for web development for pure web based apps, or even things like PhoneGap.
- jerome_bent 16y ago
  I agree. Microsoft could undercut HP at anytime with Windows 8, which is rumored to be a tablet friendly OS. HP should be aiming for web delivery and even their own web browser.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
mahrain 16y ago
The great thing about webOS is that it's all HTML5 and CSS based, even the apps. For their mobile devices they choose to run a Linux kernel on the hardware but in principle it doesn't matter what the kernel is, as long as they have some way to show the apps.
- camiller 16y ago
  Well, to start off with the initial SDK was just HTML5 and CSS. Later the PDK was released to enable actual native level coding, most of the higher end apps are PDK apps. As a side note, the original iPhone was also all web technology based. It wasn't until a year or so later that a native SDK became available.
  - ryanwatkins 16y ago
    I'd say the "higher end game apps" are PDK apps, often because they're just porting existing iOS code. They have no need for the HTML UI. With OS 2.x there are now options for hybrid apps as well - native code, but HTML UI. And the option to do backend work as node.js based services. Essentially they've got a great mixed model depending on what you want to build. All HTML/JS in the app. Or abstract backend services but still code in js (node.js). Or ditch all that and write a native code app with its own custom UI. Or write a native code plugin with HTML UI.
csomar 16y ago
This is a stupid idea, imho. If you want Windows as the OS, get a PC with Windows. If you want WebOs, get a PC with WebOs. But getting one with both, is just an annoying thing and most users won't really care. I'm not buying a powerful machine with GBs of RAM and a dual-core processor, to just run that WebOs thing. It works well with a tablet, but a PC is a computer and not a tablet. It'll be a good idea, though, to install WebOs on Free DOS machines.
- glhaynes 16y ago
  It's impossible for me so far to picture how a dual-OS system will benefit users. I keep hearing about some ability to boot the "little" OS when you just want to surf the web a little... that sounds horrible and I don't at all understand why you wouldn't just unsleep the machine from the "big" OS instance and use that. Is it just that sleep mode doesn't work well? ... So we're gonna throw on a whole other OS, too, to mitigate that? Surely I'm missing something because this sounds ludicrous.
  - dman 16y ago
    How about battery life? If you could throw in a arm chip in there and have the webOS parts always on then you could get great battery life. Essentially this would work very similar to nvidia's optimus technology where machines ship with a low power intel gpu alongwith an nvidia gpu. When you do real 3d work the nvidia gpu kicks in, otherwise youre running off the intel chip. Key thing is how seamless the transition between webos and windows is.
    - wmf 16y ago
      Dell shipped this (Latitude ON or something) and then never spoke of it again. Yo dawg, I put a computer in your computer so now you have to learn two different UIs, configure all your settings twice, try to sync data, etc. just to save some battery.
tomelders 16y ago
I liked the bit where they said they'll shoehorn a mobile OS into a desktop just for the hell of it. I also liked the bit where it was all bollocks.
JonoW 16y ago
Just as Windows on a tablet sucks because it's not optimised for touch, isn't WebOS on a desktop PC going to suck when using a mouse?
- edw 16y ago
  Exactly! How is this supposed to jump-start the market for TouchPad apps when a desktop and a tablet involve completely different interaction models? I remember Tog or another early Mac team member reminiscing about the lack of arrow keys on the original Mac keyboard. They were intentionally left off (so the story goes) to prevent companies from creating shovel-ware ports of their existing applications. There is value in getting developers to write for a desktop variant of webOS if it gets them downloading the SDK and familiar with the development model, just as the iPad obviously benefitted tremendously from the existing iPhone development infrastructure, but I hope no one thinks that you can simultaneously optimize for both desktop and tablet experiences. (Unless you're the sort of person who says "very unique" or makes multiple things your "top priority.")
- seanb 16y ago
  The thing I'd really like to see in a portable computer is a touch-interface/mouse-interface hybrid. For example, you dock your iPad in a keyboard docking station (with mouse), and the interface morphs into standard OSX, with all the power and abilities that come along with that. Take it out of the keyboard dock, and it's an iPad again, with the finger friendly iOS touch interface (and limited to touch apps). Desktop apps and touch apps could share data, but would ideally have different interfaces. E.g. OSX's Mail.app and iOS's Mail app. For HP of course, substitute webOS "slate" for iPad and custom desktop Linux distribution for OSX (I wish).
  - JonoW 16y ago
    This is a cool idea. I'd also like to use the "full" OS when using it as a tablet if I want to, and maybe vice versa.
micheljansen 16y ago
So that's why they were porting that to Windows. I just hope this won't end up killing WebOS. It was great on the Pre, I think it will do great on a tablet, but porting it to a PC might require HP to take WeBOS in a direction that will be worse for the platforms it was originally designed for.
philthy 16y ago
port over the adobe suite and textmate, maybe some other dev tools and you will kill the market...
jdavid 16y ago
I think WebOS will be like Steam is on PCs or like the Apple App store is on Mac based computers. In this case the purchasing and updating of apps will be consistent and easy to maintain, however they will still run side by side Photoshop and Games. WebOS apps will run on WebTops to compete with ChromeTops on the netbook side, but those apps will also run on the desktop. A key difference between WebTops and WebOS apps and Chrome apps will be the "Touch to Share" feature that will allow you to wirelessly share data between paired devices. This will make it really easy to have a phone, watch, TV, netbook, tablet and PC and share data between them. I bet you will even be able to configure a home network by using some sort of "Touch to Share" configuration stone. Only WebOS apps will have this feature and you may need special HP hardware to allow that functionality to work. With 100 million devices using "Touch To Share" next year, I hope we have a click-wheel level UX experiance to Rival Apple.

127 points by BvS 16y ago

I'll be blown away if HP is actually the first company to put their mobile os on a full desktop computer. I always imagined I would love running something like Android on a desktop; easy to use for everyone, no worries about viruses or software updates, nice modern UI design...really, it's a wonder that these machines don't work like that already. I can't believe I'm rooting for HP on this one, but I sure hope this works and I hope it kicks ass.

jrubyer 16y ago
Interesting times we live in..
apl 16y ago
> no worries about viruses or software updates ?
- cryptoz 16y ago
  Fair point. But that's the way it's supposed to be. I guess my comment might seem humorously ignorant given the current Android situation, but it'd be tough to argue that it's not directly in Google's interest to get all that fixed up. On the other hand, it's not in Microsoft's interest to make software updates easy or viruses to go away. They're side problems that other companies deal with. HP's webOS should be more like Android than Windows, at least in the user experience philosophy.
  - recoiledsnake 16y ago
    >On the other hand, it's not in Microsoft's interest to make software updates easy or viruses to go away. Huh, why not? How easier updates should get? If set to automatic, they're almost done Chrome style (except for the reboots GRR). And what about MSE? >HP's webOS should be more like Android than Windows With Windows, it gets updated instantly whichever OEM built your PC. With Android. it can take upto a year after getting released, or never come out at all.
    - cryptoz 16y ago
      > Huh, why not? Business. Look at IE6. Microsoft can't force system-wide updates for all their customers, so nearly 0 customers get dramatic software improvements. Of course, everyone gets security updates. > With Windows, it gets updated instantly whichever OEM built your PC. With Android. it can take upto a year after getting released, or never come out at all. This isn't really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. I understand that right now, OEMs aren't updating Android frequently. I meant more user software updates; my Android apps seem to get updates every week that add features, fix bugs, etc. This process is streamlined and automatic. This is not true with traditional desktop operating systems (aside from most Linux distros).
      - wvenable 16y ago
        Microsoft could simply add an automatic update service right into the operating system, similar to how they have MSI for installations, and then apps would be updated similarly. It's quite possible they're actually working on something like that -- updates seem to get better and better all the time.
        cryptoz 16y ago
        For at least the last 15 years, there has been no central way to upgrade user software on Microsoft Windows. Today, in 2011, there is no way to do this. Maybe it's coming eventually, sure. But again, these points are seriously minor issues compared to what I'm trying to suggest: The "mobile" OS space is consistently more user-friendly than the desktop space. Maybe desktops can catch up. Maybe MS is working magic behind the scenes. Forgive me if I'm pessimistic here. I find it far more likely that there's a slow, worldwide shift to "mobile" OSs on all computers. It'll probably resemble some sort of iOS/Android/webOS future spawn, or something. I don't know. The automatic software updates was merely an example to show where "mobile" excels and "desktop" fails. There are many others, and even those this example may change I feel my point is still made.
        wvenable 16y ago

kilian 16y ago

Maybe they can do this for their printers, too... ;)

Hoff 16y ago
That might have had a ;) with it, but (if that was supposed to be a joke) you might want to read some of the fodder from last year: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/05/hp-introducing-the-webos-printer.ars http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/05/hp-introducing-... HP did appear to be (per Mr Hurd's comments back around the time of the Palm acquisition) considering using WebOS in their printers.

gfodor 16y ago

It will be so great if HP gets its groove back. It's really sad to see one of the great American companies flounder for so long. Ever since Carly merged it with Compaq they've been basically stagnant, IMHO, I think WebOS might really set them up for a big power play against Apple over the next few years.

nopassrecover 16y ago
The only PC I've ever hated was a HP. Overpriced for poor parts, slow as hell for its advertised purposes and using their provided software, and when parts broke I had to pay for special HP parts because they used custom sizing and screws.
- jbrennan 16y ago
  Sounds a lot like Apple right before they bought NeXT.
- regularfry 16y ago
  Interestingly, my current favourite machine is an HP. But it's a business microserver, not a consumer desktop.
- jamii 16y ago
  I've had good experiences with high-end hp laptops (HP Envy 13, 15). Beautiful and reliable without the Apple markup.
- PostOnce 16y ago
  They also come loaded with bloatware, and the cases are super-cramped and leave no room for upgrades.
yardie 16y ago
I just like to say that some of HPs offerings are really well done. Just like Apple they can't make a decent computer <$500. Unlike Apple, they'll happily take your money to prove it. I've held the 13" Envy and it could give a Macbook Pro a run. Also, their dm1z laptop comes in at half the price of a Macbook Air and is quite impressive from the reviews I've seen. I was tempted to get one but they are sold out. As a WebOS developer I think most people don't know what they are missing. It's really a beautiful OS (far better than Android, and better in some respects to iOS) I hope it continues to improve. And now that the designer behind it as at Google (Matias Duarte), Android users will be in for a great surprise.

aschwartz18 16y ago

This is crazy! Say goodbye to HP. Who will be their client base. Google will beat them at the simple platform of straight to the internet! I have the Google Chrome CR-48 and its my first choice to surf the internet. When there is now an Android phone running Linux when connected to a laptop shell, HP is doing the opposite!

danssig 16y ago
"What I like/think" != "What everyone likes/thinks". This is hardly "say goodbye to HP" material (besides to you apparently).
- aschwartz18 16y ago
  Please explain what would make anyone buy this over Windows, Mac OSX or Google Chrome???

hakl 16y ago

I can't wait to see the implementation. Maybe they'll do something interesting like making use of Cygwin or virtualization.

pragmatic 16y ago

I believe it means the PC's would run _BOTH_. > every HP PC being able to run WebOS and MIcrosoft Windows as an integrated experience in 2012 I have an HP touch screen laptop/tablet. It has a mode where you can boot into a "light" OS that just has a web browser. BTW, I've never used it. > Instant Web is an instant on software solution that allows users to quickly and easily get to a browser, an IM client, and their media in a secure, fast booting environment. I believe its based on Splashtop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splashtop

raganwald 16y ago

Ok, I know I need another coffee, so I apologise in advance for being the Grinch here, but... This is pure CEO puffery. When will these guys get it? When will they start looking up to Steve Jobs instead of treating him like a guy who just happened to get lucky eight times (Apple II, Macintosh, Pixar, Macintosh again, iPod, iTMS, iPhone, App Store, iPad)? Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. He might talk about what will ship in the next sixty days if there is an SDK he is shipping to developers today. Steve does not talk about Apple investing in R&D. Steve invests in R&D. Talking about the future is the action of a person interested in how he looks and sounds, rather than the actions of a person interested in how the company performs. Steve ships. Leo had better spend less time with his PR people and more time with his engineers. I have nothing against shipping WebOS on every HP PC next year. But please, Leo, just fucking do it. Talk to your engineers, not to me.

jarek 16y ago
> Steve does not talk about what will ship on every Macintosh next year. Nah, he just talks about where he thinks the entire industry is heading and post-what era we are entering at the moment. Come on.
- raganwald 16y ago
  You're right about that, +1. Personally, I can live with CEOs of all stripes talking about or even writing books at a very high or abstract level about "The Road Ahead." It's puffery, but it doesn't masquerade as management. It's just a guy (like me) making predictions about the future. My vituperation is reserved for those CEOs who pretend that they're making product announcements or strategic direction announcements when they're vaporous or non-actionable. Maybe WebOS will be on every PC next year. Maybe not, and if we try to get Leo to eat his Claim Chowder, he'll say that "new information has come to light that caused HP to make new decisions." Puffing about the company's specific products (see also: Playbook) is really bad. But you are absolutely right that they're both puffery. Different kinds of puffery, IMO, but still puffery.
  - 16y ago

danlove 16y ago

There are two ways this could go, using WebOS as an instant-on OS. Or some form of framework running within Windows to allow WebOS applications to be run, with notifications being forwarded over Wi-Fi from WebOS devices. Remember the new Enyo framework was actually demonstrated running within Google Chrome. Either way this could be a boast to the developer eco-system, and reduce the cost per HP PC.

jdub 16y ago

First thing: Don't assume that this means they're going to replace Windows! :-) Besides the guts of the OS which talks to the hardware (a very slick Linux build) on webOS phones, the platform is basically just HTML, CSS and JavaScript. It has always been easy to run and debug applications in Chromium. You can download the SDK today and run an x86 build of webOS in VirtualBox. If you haven't played with webOS before, I urge you to try it. Web developers who care about mobile will go absolutely bananas for it, and their new framework 'Enyo' is an even better experience for developers. Here's a blog post about webOS I wrote quite a while back: http://bethesignal.org/blog/2010/06/07/why-im-excited-about-palms-webos/ http://bethesignal.org/blog/2010/06/07/why-im-excited-about-...

modernerd 16y ago

A shame that HP are coupling webOS with HP PCs, instead of putting webOS on the Web, where it might better thrive and spread. With webOS on the Web, Pre3 and TouchPad owners could log in at webos.me (or similar) from any WebKit browser and see their apps and data pre-synced; isn't that a better vision for a company that 'believes the Web is the future'? HP's new Enyo SDK already allows developers to build apps for WebKit-based browsers that resize for desktop, tablet, and mobile screens[1]; it is a joy to use and targeting multiple screen sizes works great, so it feels like a missed opportunity that webOS developers will spend their time building apps in a WebKit browser, but be unable to publish them for others to use in a WebKit browser too. If they're trying to attract developers -- the Web offers a much larger userbase than HP machines ever will. I think it worth sacrificing desktop and laptop sales to build mobile sales and create a healthy future for webOS. [1]: http://www.precentral.net/hp-posts-enyo-development-walkthrough http://www.precentral.net/hp-posts-enyo-development-walkthro...

ryanwatkins 16y ago
> HP are coupling webOS with HP PCs, instead of putting webOS on the Web There is no reason to believe they will not also do this. Use the service architecture to allow Enyo development to expose device specific system services (telephony, etc). But license (open source?) Enyo for web development for pure web based apps, or even things like PhoneGap.
jerome_bent 16y ago
I agree. Microsoft could undercut HP at anytime with Windows 8, which is rumored to be a tablet friendly OS. HP should be aiming for web delivery and even their own web browser.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

mahrain 16y ago

The great thing about webOS is that it's all HTML5 and CSS based, even the apps. For their mobile devices they choose to run a Linux kernel on the hardware but in principle it doesn't matter what the kernel is, as long as they have some way to show the apps.

camiller 16y ago
Well, to start off with the initial SDK was just HTML5 and CSS. Later the PDK was released to enable actual native level coding, most of the higher end apps are PDK apps. As a side note, the original iPhone was also all web technology based. It wasn't until a year or so later that a native SDK became available.
- ryanwatkins 16y ago
  I'd say the "higher end game apps" are PDK apps, often because they're just porting existing iOS code. They have no need for the HTML UI. With OS 2.x there are now options for hybrid apps as well - native code, but HTML UI. And the option to do backend work as node.js based services. Essentially they've got a great mixed model depending on what you want to build. All HTML/JS in the app. Or abstract backend services but still code in js (node.js). Or ditch all that and write a native code app with its own custom UI. Or write a native code plugin with HTML UI.

csomar 16y ago

This is a stupid idea, imho. If you want Windows as the OS, get a PC with Windows. If you want WebOs, get a PC with WebOs. But getting one with both, is just an annoying thing and most users won't really care. I'm not buying a powerful machine with GBs of RAM and a dual-core processor, to just run that WebOs thing. It works well with a tablet, but a PC is a computer and not a tablet. It'll be a good idea, though, to install WebOs on Free DOS machines.

glhaynes 16y ago
It's impossible for me so far to picture how a dual-OS system will benefit users. I keep hearing about some ability to boot the "little" OS when you just want to surf the web a little... that sounds horrible and I don't at all understand why you wouldn't just unsleep the machine from the "big" OS instance and use that. Is it just that sleep mode doesn't work well? ... So we're gonna throw on a whole other OS, too, to mitigate that? Surely I'm missing something because this sounds ludicrous.
- dman 16y ago
  How about battery life? If you could throw in a arm chip in there and have the webOS parts always on then you could get great battery life. Essentially this would work very similar to nvidia's optimus technology where machines ship with a low power intel gpu alongwith an nvidia gpu. When you do real 3d work the nvidia gpu kicks in, otherwise youre running off the intel chip. Key thing is how seamless the transition between webos and windows is.
  - wmf 16y ago
    Dell shipped this (Latitude ON or something) and then never spoke of it again. Yo dawg, I put a computer in your computer so now you have to learn two different UIs, configure all your settings twice, try to sync data, etc. just to save some battery.

tomelders 16y ago

I liked the bit where they said they'll shoehorn a mobile OS into a desktop just for the hell of it. I also liked the bit where it was all bollocks.

JonoW 16y ago

Just as Windows on a tablet sucks because it's not optimised for touch, isn't WebOS on a desktop PC going to suck when using a mouse?

edw 16y ago
Exactly! How is this supposed to jump-start the market for TouchPad apps when a desktop and a tablet involve completely different interaction models? I remember Tog or another early Mac team member reminiscing about the lack of arrow keys on the original Mac keyboard. They were intentionally left off (so the story goes) to prevent companies from creating shovel-ware ports of their existing applications. There is value in getting developers to write for a desktop variant of webOS if it gets them downloading the SDK and familiar with the development model, just as the iPad obviously benefitted tremendously from the existing iPhone development infrastructure, but I hope no one thinks that you can simultaneously optimize for both desktop and tablet experiences. (Unless you're the sort of person who says "very unique" or makes multiple things your "top priority.")
seanb 16y ago
The thing I'd really like to see in a portable computer is a touch-interface/mouse-interface hybrid. For example, you dock your iPad in a keyboard docking station (with mouse), and the interface morphs into standard OSX, with all the power and abilities that come along with that. Take it out of the keyboard dock, and it's an iPad again, with the finger friendly iOS touch interface (and limited to touch apps). Desktop apps and touch apps could share data, but would ideally have different interfaces. E.g. OSX's Mail.app and iOS's Mail app. For HP of course, substitute webOS "slate" for iPad and custom desktop Linux distribution for OSX (I wish).
- JonoW 16y ago
  This is a cool idea. I'd also like to use the "full" OS when using it as a tablet if I want to, and maybe vice versa.

micheljansen 16y ago

So that's why they were porting that to Windows. I just hope this won't end up killing WebOS. It was great on the Pre, I think it will do great on a tablet, but porting it to a PC might require HP to take WeBOS in a direction that will be worse for the platforms it was originally designed for.

philthy 16y ago

port over the adobe suite and textmate, maybe some other dev tools and you will kill the market...

jdavid 16y ago

I think WebOS will be like Steam is on PCs or like the Apple App store is on Mac based computers. In this case the purchasing and updating of apps will be consistent and easy to maintain, however they will still run side by side Photoshop and Games. WebOS apps will run on WebTops to compete with ChromeTops on the netbook side, but those apps will also run on the desktop. A key difference between WebTops and WebOS apps and Chrome apps will be the "Touch to Share" feature that will allow you to wirelessly share data between paired devices. This will make it really easy to have a phone, watch, TV, netbook, tablet and PC and share data between them. I bet you will even be able to configure a home network by using some sort of "Touch to Share" configuration stone. Only WebOS apps will have this feature and you may need special HP hardware to allow that functionality to work. With 100 million devices using "Touch To Share" next year, I hope we have a click-wheel level UX experiance to Rival Apple.